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A Microsoft guy tackles Linux

By on July 10, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)

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- by Nissan Dookeran -
I am not especially a Linux advocate. I go with whatever software works best for me in terms of usefulness and feasibility. I'm Microsoft-certified, so persons meeting me classify me as The Microsoft Guy. However, thanks to the people I met at last month's <SLASH HREF="//linux.com/relocate.pl?id=c8e289d27925eeda4d0e02fd54da7978" ID="015e4490d7f5d5dffbc129242fe75646" TITLE="http://www.floscaribbean.org" TYPE="LINK">Free, Libre and Open Source Conference</SLASH>, and guidance from the <SLASH HREF="//linux.com/relocate.pl?id=e9acaebc86528da0c2d9d3df73a550a7" ID="81e783a577cd4fabf7da337ae059c750" TITLE="http://ttlug.linux.co.tt/" TYPE="LINK">Trinidad and Tobago Linux Users' Group</SLASH> (TTLUG) mailing list, I have learned that free and open source applications are ready for mainstream use. Armed with my newfound knowledge, not only was it unbelievably easy to move from Windows XP to Red Hat Linux 9, I had fun doing it!

With my first Linux experience installing Slackware back in 1996 or 1997, I had to do lots of homework. There were things you needed to know including stuff most computer users would not want to bother with, such as the correct vertical and horizontal refresh rates of your specific brand of monitor. You had to set these correctly (manually -- there was no auto-detect feature then) or else you would literally fry your monitor. This instantly discouraged mere mortals from trying Linux.

Since that time I have learned Windows 9x/2000/XP desktop and server variants and various applications for them because they're what most people were using and where most people needed support. I kept tabs on Linux, trusting that the open source community would keep improving Linux to the point where I could confidently advise people about using Linux as a viable alternative.

Now, with the release of Red Hat 9 and the existence of bootable Linux variants like Knoppix and dyne:bolic, I believed I could start talking about Linux without being branded Microsoft heretic or Linux advocate, but simply as someone using common sense.

To evaluate the feasibility of a permanent crossover to Red Hat 9 I listed the software I use so that when I started using Linux I could weigh whether I had all the tools I needed. I created a table listing my tasks and the applications I found to satisfy them in both Windows and Linux.

Let me take a moment to have a heart-to-heart with anyone who thinks he cannot live without a particular application. Applications only aid tasks. Before Windows Notepad there was the physical notepad. Before the word processor, there was the typewriter, before the typwriter a pencil. The key for one looking to get out of the neverending cycle of paying for upgrades to proprietary software is to distinguish between the application and the tasks the application assists with. When you approach things from this angle, finding applications to fulfill tasks in Linux becomes tons easier.

The initial "application I could not get rid of even though I wanted to" was Windows Media Player 9. But once I realized my system was just too slow when running Media Player's processor-intensive super-graphics I realized Linux offered an alternative I just didn't have under Windows.

After a clean, error-free installation of Red Hat 9 I had a nice interface running, pointing and clicking just like Windows. As the interface changes between DOS and Windows 3.1 and 3.1 and Windows 95 demonstrate, interface changes happen even with Windows. Using the need to learn a new interface as an excuse to not consider Linux is just an uninformed opinion. Looking at Red Hat's GUI, aside from the lack of a Program Files menu, I could imagine I was running an upgrade of Windows XP (and I am sure my friends in TTLUG would argue I am).

However, I now hit a snag. I couldn't get online, because Red Hat's Internet setup wizard couldn't find my Conexant Winmodem.

Winmodems are cheap, controllerless "software modems" that come supplied with drivers for Windows only. I believe the majority of computer users who purchase generic non-brand-name machines do so because they're more affordable. I know I'll probably buy a new computer within a year or two anyway, so the less I invest now, the less it hurts in two years time when I want a new system. Then I'll look at the specifications from several brand-name manufacturers, do my homework on what parts I really need and what I can reuse from my old system, and build my own system using wholesaled parts available at low cost. When I was buying my current system I didn't expect to be moving from Windows to any other operating system.

I was lost for a time. TTLUG to the rescue! I asked for help on TTLUG's mailing list and I got my answer. It was like having a free helpdesk. Not only that, but I'm sure at least one other person on the list saw my question and the answer and was able to either use it himself or share the answer with someone who came along with a similar question.

Without getting into too much of the nitty gritty technical detail, I got the modem working, and I was on my way with the next steps towards Linux migration. I've hit more snags along the way, but I had the Internet and my mailing list buddies to guide me where I got stuck.

Look at all this free stuff! What is it?

Many first-time Linux users get lost simply because they do not know what software does the job they want to do. That's another power of the Linux users group mailing list. If I didn't at first know what program I was looking for to do the job I wanted, there was a good chance at least one of the hundred-odd persons on my LUG's mailing list would.

Another wonderful thing about FOSS is that upgrades are consistent and free, so if I have a problem, I can fix it, or if I can't fix it, chances are someone else who has my problem can fix it. Now that I've done it a few times, I can install and uninstall software easily.

I have now migrated 90% of my tasks to Linux. I boot Windows XP just to play a game or two that I haven't been able to figure out how to migrate to Linux, or to download images from my digital camera, since I haven't figured out how to get the driver to work yet. (Anyone own a Polaroid Fun Flash 640SE and have it working under Linux ?)

I'll end this article with the table of Linux application alternatives that I have found to satisfy my tasks. Please e-mail me or leave a comment below if you want to add any information or comments about the tasks I have not yet migrated to Linux, or better yet, if you've found a better way for me to accomplish my tasks.

<col width="120"> <col width="120"> <col width="137"> <col width="261">
Task Fulfilled Application Under Windows Application Under Linux Comments on Quality of Replacement
Browse and view files on my local machine Windows Explorer Nautilus Nautilus much more configurable. I still need to figure out how to change the default application associated with file extensions.
View images (single images or a series of images sequentially) Windows Fax and Image viewer Nautilus Nautilus previews the pictures as I browse the folder and opens them if I want to, so I don't have to browse and open individual images to find what I want. However, I do miss the slide show feature Windows Fax and Image viewer offered.
Dial-up to the Internet Dial-Up Networking/Network and Dial-Up Connections Modem Lights 2.2.0 Wonderfully light. I parked it in my tray. It doesn't disappear when I disconnect from the net, meaning I can log on with fewer clicks. Took a little effort to install, but nothing a 12-year-old couldn't do. WinModem support is limited though; you have to install drivers manually.
Browse Web pages Internet Explorer 6, Mozilla Galeon, Mozilla I haven't had a crash of Mozilla yet, and if I ever do, I'm sure it won't take my taskbar with it.

Check email

Microsoft Outlook

Ximian Evolution

Loads faster than Outlook

Write documents with spell checking and formating

Microsoft Word

OpenOffice.org Writer

Similar menus and features. Autosuggestion of completion of my words as I type is also a cool feature that I wish Word had; wish I could make it autocomplete by tabbing rather than pressing Enter though. Haven't investigated how well- supported fonts are.

I noticed something like a 50% reduction in file size without quality loss when I saved documents in native OO format, and this document had images to boot. However, I did also notice about a 50% increase in file size when I took a native Word XP document, and saved it back in Office XP format using OO.

Schedule appointments

Microsoft Outlook

Ximian Evolution

Could practically be called Outlook for Linux, that's how similar they are

Play DVDs

Windows Media Player 9

Ogle DVD Player/Xine

Some manual configuration needed setting up ogle and xine, because of package dependency issues.

Play music CDs

Windows Media Player 9

Xine/Gnome CD Player

Gnome CD Player is better, since I don't have to wait for the monstrous Media Player UI to load.

Play Divx, AVI, WMV, MPG movies

Windows Media Player 9

Xine Library, XineUI and/or Totem front end.

I prefer the XineUI front end. One interesting note: Windows Media Player 9 had a tendency to crash or refuse continued play on "damaged" AVIs or other movie and sound files. These same files continued to play in Xine, although there was a slight distortion of the image as it read over the damaged bits.

Play QuickTime movies

QuickTime


Investigating, although I have found plugins for Xine to support QuickTime, I have not installed or tested them yet

Play RealPlayer files

RealOne


Investigating. I think there is a RealOne for Linux but have not investigated this yet.

Instant messenging

ICQ/MSN/Yahoo Messenger/AOL IM

GAIM

Better than XP. Shows all instant message programs under one window, reducing clutter. It supports a wide range of IMs (some I've never heard of).

Play MP3s

Winamp/ Windows Media Player 9

Xine

Nautilus browser didn't automatically associate my MP3s with Xine though, and the XMMS Winamp-like program it did associate my MP3s with couldn't play them because of "IP issues with the MP3 decoder"

Play MP3 playlists

Winamp/ Windows Media Player 9

Xine

Xine has playlists, like Winamp.

Spreadsheet

Microsoft Excel

OpenOffice.org Calc

As good as Excel.

Download pictures from digital camera

Polaroid Drivers

Camera Tool (gtkam) Red Hat is not picking up my camera when i activate it. Have to investigate more why it fails. Large listing of different camera types though.
Edit pictures Photoshop/Paint/Paint Shop Pro The Gimp/XPaint Works for me, but I'm no graphic artist.
Create Web sites Microsoft FrontPage 2000 Mozilla Editor FrontPage has better site management and templates, but Mozilla is good for a quick Web page design. Currently on the lookout for a more suitable alternative for large site management.
File sharing Kazaalite Investigating, but it looks like BitTorrent or Kazaalite running through WinE (Windows Emulator for Linux) Need to learn how to set up WinE.
Project management Microsoft Project MrProject 0.9 Untested, not doing much project management
Drawing data flow diagrams Microsoft Visio Dia Diagram Editor 0.9 Untested, but I wish I had had this in Form 4/5 to assist with my O-level project. Dia loads faster than Visio.
View PDF documents Adobe Acrobat Reader xpdf Xpdf loads PDF files faster. Need to figure out how to make the default association of PDFs with xpdf rather than ggv. This is a Nautilis issue, rather than an xpdf problem, since Nautilus is the file manager.
Avoid nasty macro viruses and other viruses AVG Anti Virus None Linux doesn't have viruses! Still, I've been told I need a tool to make sure I don't propogate viruses.

Junk spam

None

SpamAssassin

Finally!

Host Web sites on my local machine for testing

Internet Information Server

Apache Web Server

Not tested yet

Updating and patching system bugs/security holes

Windows Update

Red Hat Update Agent

Because of nature of open source, bugs fixes are more frequent and more stable

Share office documents

Microsoft Word/Excel/PowerPoint

OpenOffice.org

90% compatible. Some things display slightly different in OO, but print preview is the same. Robin "Roblimo" Miller made an interesting point when I heard him speak on this issue, saying that if it's formatted to the point where it didn't translate properly, it was probably badly or overly formatted anyway.

Optimize desktop use

None

Workspaces pane

Wonderful tool! I wish Windows had it naturally, can't tell you how much this reduces my desktop clutter.

Fast desktop switching
Windows XP feature for non-networked computers
Ctrl+Alt+F1, login as new user at command-line interface, start GUI by entering command startx -- :1. Switch between screens using Ctrl+Alt+F7 or F8 depending on user. Can log on to six users concurrently this way.
XP wins here. Even when I switch to a new console so my brother can use the computer while I am still logged on, I didn't want him to have to restart X through a command prompt. I just wanted him to be presented with a GUI automatically and log on just as he does with Windows. However, if I had my full network up, I wouldn't be able to log on as two users at once with XP, and I'd lose my desktop switching tool the moment I joined the domain. This doesn't matter in Red Hat since it treats security and user logons a bit differently.

Nissan Reddi Dookeran is an IT professional/consultant in Trinidad, West Indies. He is an active member of the Trinidad and Tobago Computer Society (TTCS) and Trinidad and Tobago Linux Users' Group (TTLUG), and holds a B.Sc. Computer Science and Management from the University of the West Indies. He is MCSA (Win2K) and MCDBA (SQL2K) certified.

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on A Microsoft guy tackles Linux

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Quick Time and RealPlayer

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 04:30 PM
You should try MPlayer for QuickTime (you should download the codecs and the MPlayer source, then put the codecs in place, and after unpack MPlayer source and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./configure; make; su - -c "make install").
And yes, there is RealPlayer for Linux.

#

mplayer

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:50 PM
I agree, Mplayer (with all of the various codecs installed) has played every multimedia file I have ever thrown at it, even damaged files and formats that Windows Media Player didn't know what to do with. It has caused one of my formerly-Windows-diehard friends to go dual-booting.

One caveat, it is not easy to install, as you need to get several pieces and compile/install them in the right order. However, the atrpms archive does have some prebuilt binaries<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

http://atrpms.physik.fu-berlin.de/

#

Easy with Xine/GXine from Freshrpms

Posted by: Danilo Câmara on July 11, 2003 01:21 AM
I have them working with no need of configuration using Xine/GXine from <A HREF="http://freshrpms.net/" TITLE="freshrpms.net">http://freshrpms.net/</a freshrpms.net>

#

MPlayer and Xine

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:22 AM
They both can share windows codecs I have done and for the most stable about 6 months ago was Xine but this could have changed.

#

xine can do the same

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 02:59 AM
It's not a matter of player, it's a matter of having the right codecs installed.

#

Re:xine can do the same

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 02, 2003 05:10 AM
I think that there's some mirror on Xine's site that has links to RPMs for everything you'll ever need:
skins, UI, lib, and codecs for Realplayer and Quicktime.
I perfer to use XMMS still, for my sound needs, because it loads SO much faster. (not to mention the lack of certain PLAYLIST ISSUES)

#

Some other programs...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 04:45 PM
Image Viewer: have you tried gqview - I think it comes with Red Hat, and is the best viewer for images. Does slide shows and has a simple interface! I wish there was an equvilent on Windows.

OpenOffice.org writer - you can change the autocomplete key. I think it's somewhere in the options (sorry, at work atmo and only have MS Word). You can choose space, tab, enter or some others.

Play movies: I actually prefer the Windows media player interface - wierd, eh?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

Real Player - version 8 is available - it's the one that doesn't try to take over your machine too. It's available in rpm format (http://forms.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html<nobr>)<wbr></nobr> , and you may need to install using a "force" option (ie, rpm -i --force real...). I quite like it, though the file dialog is a bit crappy.

MP3 playback - hmm, a problem with Red Hat alone I'm afraid. You can download the library, but I'm a Mandrake user and don't really know what to do. Nautilus also has a preview option for MP3's - just hover the cursor over a file and it plays!

Cameras - sorry, haven't got one!

Hope this helps you!

#

Re:Some other programs...

Posted by: walt-sjc on July 10, 2003 09:26 PM
I prefer xzgv for images. Zooming to fit the window is automatic, rotating, thumbnails, etc. Works with many many file types.

For MP3's, I prefer xmms.

#

Re:Some other programs...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:03 AM
Gphoto owns gqview.

#

gThumb Image Viewer (also with EXIF reader)

Posted by: Danilo Câmara on July 11, 2003 01:36 AM
I prefer very much gThumb (updated RPMs in <A HREF="http://freshrpms.net/" TITLE="freshrpms.net">http://freshrpms.net/</a freshrpms.net>) as Image Viewer. It has cool looking and EXIF info display which is a must for digital camera photos.

#

Re:gThumb Image Viewer (also with EXIF reader)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 18, 2003 11:06 AM
Definitely gThumb. Really well done!

#

mpg321 / xmms - libmad

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:23 AM
MP3: use mpg321 instead of mpg123. mpg321 is fully opensource and uses libmad which is also opensource. While i'm at it, Xmms also uses that same library.

#

pornview is what you want..

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 08:54 PM
pornview is what you want..

#

At the risk of starting a religious war...

Posted by: Leon Brooks on July 13, 2003 04:40 PM
...have you tried Kuickshow?

#

Re:RealPlayer

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 01:30 PM
Yes, there is a RealOne Player for Linux, which works really well. Try the RealNetworks site for the download.

As for IM, Yahoo!, ICQ and AOL are all linuxed (ICQ and AOL in the form of Netscape 7). Only MSN has no official Linux version!

Browsers.. why not compare NS7 on Windoz to NS7 on Linux?

#

Re:Some other programs...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 12:04 AM
I use PixiePlus as a slide show
program, it does however require
the KDE libs.

I have used it for a good many
years... it's fast and stable.

As others have said get mplayer;
with the proper codecs it will
play anything you throw at it.

#

Like gqview for Windows

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 17, 2003 08:05 AM
Check out IrfanView for an excellent image viewer on Windows. It supports a huge number of formats, and basic image editing like cropping. It also does lossless JPEG rotation.

#

Better than Excel

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 04:45 PM
I suggest to try Gnumeric, I really think it is better than Excel, has excelent XLS import and is lighting fast loading.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 04:49 PM
You are running at init level 3 which is multi-user non-gui. If you switch your run level to level 4 by typing at the command prompt: telinit 4. You would then be prompted with a GUI login to X instead of the console login prompt.

Not sure about RedHat, but in most GNU/Linux distros you can change the default run level by editing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/inittab with your favourite plain text editor.

man telinit for more information.

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:51 PM
Or you can use Xnest

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 10:56 PM
Nope, does not look like he's at runlevel 3 since he uses startx --:1 to start a new login I'd guess that display:0 is already up.

If you want multiple graphical logins then you can edit your gdm.conf file found in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/X11/gdm directory.
In the [servers] section look for a line that says:
0=Standard
Add a line below that reads 1=Standard and you will have two logins which can be switched between using ctrl-alt-f7 and ctrl-alt-f8.
2=Standard on another line would add a third on ctrl-alt-f9

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:15 AM
Runlevel 5 is the graphical login.

Level 0 is shutdown
Level 1 is Usermode Linux (or at least, single-user with no outside access and no scripts)
Level 2 is Multiuser / no network
Level 3 is Full Multi-user / No Graphical login
Level 4 is unused (but you can set it up if you're awkward)
Level 5 is "da business", this is the normal full operation, full graphic whatzamahusa
Level 6 is re-boot

You'll spend most of your time using 0 and 5, and occationally 6.

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:24 AM
runlevel 4 is supposed to be for GUI with no network, must like runlevel 2 is console with no network.

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:07 AM
Wow, never knew that! thanks!

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 06:29 PM
Depends also a lot on your distro, Slackers have runlevel 4 as a general GUI, and 5=2=3 as cli with networks, of course this can be configured to hell and back, but that's the defaults.

OTOH, all rpm and deb based distros (including Gentoo, even if it doesn't use debs) have the defaults stated above

HTH

David

#

Re:GUI login prompt

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:40 AM
Debian's default is to make runlevels 3-5 identical, and defualt to runlevel 3.

-Rob

#

Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:03 PM
or making a birthday card under Linux. Watch Mozilla choke on the java at major web sites. Linux still has a way to go on the desktop.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:39 PM
MP3 to wave is all too simple. All the MP3 players have this feature built in.

Mozilla supports properly built Java programs.

As for making birthday cards, I'd rather do that on my Mac.

But I would never recommend Linux for the desktop. It is better not to be flooded by people demanding that we programmers create all sorts of programs - as if we were some sort of code-factory.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:20 AM
But I would never recommend Linux for the desktop. It is better not to be flooded by people demanding that we programmers create all sorts of programs - as if we were some sort of code-factory.

And this is where the OSS community fails. You can't expect to win over Windows users with these kind of comments. I'll stick to my Windows boxen for the time being.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 06:35 AM
quite frankly, why *should* we expect to win over windows users? what's in it for us in that?

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:12 PM
How do you mean the opensource community fails?
You seem to believe that everyone in the world has been put on earch to serve your erratic whims? why is this?
This is clearly the attitude of a leach - contributing nothing back while demanding bells and whistles. Sorry, we dont need you. Go away.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 06:38 PM
I insist. and i was referring to mom and pop users with no programming skill. How do you expect them to contribute? Writing in Python? The OSS community needs to be more friendly and condescending to those users who simply are looking for an alternative to MS bloatware and virusware. What's in it for you, you say? The recognition that Linux is a viable alternative to anything Redmond does. But right now, my friend, that's not happening. Go away? It won't. Not while people are curious about Linux and are driven away by comments and observations like yours.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:01 PM
And this is where OSS fails?

- I dont expect mom and pop users to get involved in the opensource community. I would refer them to the distro makers (or opensource project directed towards this type of user) who are - after all - providing this specific service to mom-and-pop users. Their needs are so different from most of the opensource people that it would be best served by companies like Lindows, Redhat, SuSE etc.

Individual opensource contributors are trying to scratch their own itch in their spare time. I think its pretty presumptous to tell those individuals that "They have to fix this - have to fix that". No. They dont have to. I wont barge into your living room and demand that you fix my plumbing - please refrain from doing the equivalent to me while we have good "plumbers" in the market place (RH, Mandrake, Lindows etc.)
You seem to think that everyone who's into Opensource should see it as their duty to "fight the big microsoft dragon". If you feel that this is worthwile to you then you're welcome to do it yourself. The rest of us just want the best solution to our own requirements - something that we believe Opensource is providing. You want to stay with your Windows boxen? - well go ahead! - I dont mind as thats clearly your choice to make, not mine as I couldn't care less about your choices of which software/platform to use.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 10:27 PM
Unfortunately my friend, all sort of programmers that write all sort of programs for the MS platform are the ones that are succesful and get users to stay with Windows. Take for example 2Action, a nifty Palm app that takes your notes in the Palm syncs it in the desktop to an html document and presto. I can't live with this app, which incidentally is not available in Linux. It can be argued that Linux has Office suites, Mail clients, CD burners and so on, but it's these kind of small, obscure apps that hold some users that are looking into moving to Linux, like myself, to hold and stay with MS. I've even downloaded live eval cd's from Knoppix and Suse.

My own opinion on this is that users stay or leave a platform according to the applications they have available. I know of some people that, given a choice, wouldv'e stayed with DOS 5 because of WP 5.1 (remember that?!?) Just take that into consideration.

#

Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:21 PM
According to a previous post "Mozilla chokes on Java on major web sites"? This is *not* my experience... perhaps the poster can provide some URLs where this will happen. I'd love to test it out, submit a bug report and have it fixed - that's the way of Open Source!

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 10:11 PM
One site that I haven't been able to get to work is www.pogo.com, playing chess.

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:38 PM
Its been a while since I had that problem, but I think it had something to do (my case, maybe doesn't apply but check and see) was to remove the plugin I copied to the plugin directory and instead make a symlink from its location in the jre/plugins/ns610/<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... to the mozilla plugin directory, e.g.,
"cd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/path/to/mozilla/plugins; ln -s<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/java/jre/plugin/i386/ns610/libjavaplugin_oji<nobr>.<wbr></nobr> so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./ "

may not be an issue with new mozilla versions, but it crashed mozilla back in the early stable release days. Not using RH9 so check your system to find where the java plugin is located.

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:06 AM
wow

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 09:04 PM
I don't think that's a mozilla bug, I think it's a java issue. IIRC, the reason the symlink is needed instead of a copy is because java must load other libraries from its directory, and if you copy it, it doesn't know where to find them. Could be wrong though (someone wanna correct me?) But, yeah, it's still needed.

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 10:04 PM
I use linux nearly 98% of the time. But I agree with the poster who stated that Java is a problem. I have systems loaded with SuSE, Mandrake, Lindows, and Redhat. None handle Java as well as my wife's Win2k system.

Here are a couple of examples and descriptions of some of the problems I find:

      VisualRoute (www.visualroute.com) works poorly under Linux. Works well under windows


      www.smartmoney.com - Pick a stock, then go to the "Chart". Works fine for windows. For linux the applet sometimes does not work or the Java applet's fonts are messed up, the buttons don't work, and the hover prices are non-functional.

Java running under linux often does a near-lockup up the desktop. Usually this occurs when running two or more java apps (Oracle's dbca and VisualRoute for example) simultaneously.

And yes, I've tried numerous JVMs. Including blackdown, IBM, and Sun.

Whose problem is this? Perhaps poorly coded Java, perhaps bad jvm port, perhaps something in linux? I dunno. Either way the manifestation is the same: it looks worse under linux. Some things hint at it being a combination of problems. For example switching JVMs often fixes one or another problem. Or a very large, complex Java app. such as JDeveloper or Tomcat will work quite well.

Whatever the problem is, Windows gets the developer effort and thus they all work well (for my experience) thereunder. Linux varies.

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 02:03 AM
The problem with "Java" code that only runs on Win32 is why Sun sued MS for violating their Java license.

Linux does tend to fall down when it runs short of memory. Some Java apps end up using much more memory on linux than the same app on, say, SGI Irix -- I assume SGI is more careful about copying memory than linux, mostly because Irix was developed at a time when memory was much more expensive. In any case, you get very slow performance when linux starts swapping, often followed by the Xserver crashing. You can see the same problem in any memory-intensive app.

We will always have apps written in ways that are tied to particular hardware and software, or that require bigger hardware. Overall, linux will get you further than Win32 on the same hardware, while if an open source app is badly coded there is a better chance that it will get fixed than there is for a closed source app.

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 03:56 AM
> www.smartmoney.com

No idea about Moz, but Konqueror works fine on this applet.

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 10:32 PM
Really? Not here. I tried the smartmoney site with SuSE 8.2. The price charting app. loads and displays a graph, but when I move the mouse over the chart I don't see any data hover over the mouse like I do when I try it in windows. Also clicking on the applet buttons does not do anything.

Tried both konq and moz 1.4

#

Re:Mozilla chokes on Java?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 03:39 PM
Strange : I checked these two web sites, and the applets worked witjout a hitch on both, using Galeon and Sun JVM 1.4.1<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... If Galeon works with these sites, Mozilla works too. Then again, it's Mozilla 1.4 I'm using.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:50 PM
Oh, so it's Mozilla's fault that the "major websites" hire morons who skimmed the tutorial at http://java.sun.com and then called themselves "Java Programmers"?

Properly written programs run properly. Defective code crashes. Maybe you have a long way to go before you're ready for Linux.

Oh, and I run FreeBSD 5.1 so I don't have to deal with lusers whining on the lists about how "BSD isn't ready for the desktop".

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Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 18, 2003 11:17 AM
>>Oh, so it's Mozilla's fault that the "major websites" hire morons who skimmed the tutorial at http://java.sun.com and then called themselves "Java Programmers"?

Not to mention that companies only test on IE and just try convincing them to do testing on something the marketing department has never heard of...

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:07 AM
Actually read the documentation with whatever player you're using in linux, or use this command:

mpg123 -w filename.wav filename.mp3

mpg123 is on the CD's of most distro's

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:19 AM
No problem with Konqueror (which also runs fine on GNOME as Konqueror-embedded or Konq-e). Otoh i'm not aware of packages i use Debian/GNU Linux + KDE 3.1.2 / Konqueror

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav funny

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:31 PM
Heres the funny part, Windows doesn't even come with tools to do that so you are defending a prog, which is only available probably as commercially to windows Something which is even funnier is that many of the people who defend windows are the ones who pirated it anyway. I bet if we did a poll of people who like linux and who likes windows, and also factored in people who bought windows, the ratios would be VERY interesting

And just so u are aware, converting mp3's to wav's are actually useless, because if u try to change them to a lossy format again, lots of static is generated.

But if u mean ripping CD's and stuff, Grip comes standard with linux, no similar tools come with windows

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Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 08:30 AM
Well, I did the MP3 to wav conversion with XMMS.
If you want to try something constructive in Windows, try totally removing Interknot Exposer. Myaelf, I can remove all 4 browsers from Slackware and still have file browsing, etc. Couldn't even get Interknot Exposer uninstalled in W95, and that was the easier version of Windows to accomplish that task.

I've also watched as people pointed out how MSN fed Opera browsers crap code, so as to deliberately foul up the web page contents.

I think the 'bad java code will crash, but good java code runs fine' answer was where you lost the argument; I'm just adding a few more shovels of dirt for the mass burial.

#

Re:Try converting a mp3 to wav

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 04:04 PM
"Making a birthday card on Linux?"
Aren't u suppose to use Gimp for that?

"Watch Mozilla choke on the java at major web sites"
What the F*** has Mozilla got ta do with Linux? Wouldn't the Windows version of Mozilla choke on the same sites? Complain to Mozilla.org man, this their problem... Nuttin' ta do with Linux (or GNU for that matter).

As for conversions between *.wav and *.mp3... Gee I don't got no clue why anyone would want to do that... But each to his/her own.

#

gqview for slide shows

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:27 PM
Hey, you said you missed the features of the slideshow viewer of windows? well in linux there is GQVIEW. It's a really good one.

#

Re:gqview for slide shows

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:21 AM

You can also check out <A HREF="http://gthumb.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">GThumb</a sourceforge.net>, which integrates nicely with Nautilus (it can even replace EOG as the default image-viewer).

#

File Sharing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:34 PM
You should try giFT (http://gift.sf.net) with the FastTrack (the Kazaa network) plugin (http://developer.berlios.de/projects/gift-fasttr<nobr>a<wbr></nobr> ck)
Both project downloads are only available through CVS.

#

Clickable

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:51 PM
<A HREF="http://gift.sf.net/" TITLE="sf.net">http://gift.sf.net</a sf.net>

#

MLdonkey connects to both kazaa and edonkey

Posted by: qwerty474 on July 11, 2003 04:46 AM
<A HREF="http://www.nongnu.org/mldonkey/" TITLE="nongnu.org">mldonkey allows you to connect to several edonkey servers at the same time. But it also connects to Kazaa, bittorrent, gnutella2, soulseek, direct connect and overnet</a nongnu.org>

#

Mldonkey r0xxors!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:00 AM
It is by far the best p2p I've ever encountered; been using it for a long time now and had very little trouble with it, considering the huge amount of features it has. Extremely well coded I might add...

#

Pyslsk

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:26 AM
MLdonkey also has Soulseek support. Soulseek is great for music, especially not-so-common music.

However i tend not to like the GUI of MLdonkey (no, neither the WWW interface as it misses a few important features). Therefore i use Pyslsk for Soulseek.

http://freshmeat.net/projects/pyslsk

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Re:Pyslsk

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 03:44 PM
There's Platero (a QT App) which interfaces with mldonkey too.
You can then use one mldonkey instance for each user, so that, when you have multiple users on one machine like me, each has his settings and personal files.

#

FAST new graphical login (user switching)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:37 PM
try with
<TT>shell_prompt$ gdmflexiserver</TT>
for login in new X server (switch then with SHIFT-ALT-F7, SHIFT-ALT-F8,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)
or
<TT>shell_prompt$ gdmflexiserver -n</TT>
for a nested login<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-).<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...provided you use graphical login. Of course, you might create menu entries (launchers) for both of them<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

#

Re:FAST new graphical login (user switching)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 09:57 PM
Great tip! I love this.

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Re:FAST new graphical login (user switching)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 03:47 PM
Or with a GUI : login in a gnome session, and use the menu "System Tools/New Login" or "New Login in A Nested Window"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
The entries are already there on a default Gnome Menu. Don't know about RedHat menu.

Ookaze

#

The table of equivalents / replacements / analogs

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:41 PM
If you're looking to migrate from Windows to Linux, this might be useful:
<A HREF="http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/" TITLE="linuxshop.ru">The table of equivalents / replacements / analogs of Windows software in Linux</a linuxshop.ru>

Description:

One of the largest difficulties in migrating away from Windows to Linux is the lack of comparable software. Newbies usually search for analogs of Windows software for Linux, and advanced Linux-users cannot answer their questions since they often don't know too much about Windows<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:). This list of equivalents / replacements / analogs of Windows software in Linux is based on our own experience and on the information from the visitors of this page (thanks!).

This table is not a static - new programs can be added both to left and to right sides, and it is not fact that right column will be filled immediately. In the future we plan to migrate this table to the PHP/MySQL engine, so visitors could add the program themselves, vote for analogs, add comments, etc.

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What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:46 PM
How will Linux software get better if we lie to ourselves about how "great" Linux software is?

Some Linux software *is* great, but lots isn't. It's getting there, but it's not there yet.

The article contains unfair, biased comparisons.

The Gimp doesn't come close to Photoshop.
Mozilla is a dog. Compare IE to Firebird if you must.
OpenOffice is a bloated monster.
Comparing Windows Media Player to Gnome CD player? What about the Windows CD Player.

"Linux doesn't have viruses!"

  -- err...

Balanced, fair reviews please!

#

Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 06:16 PM
Though Gimp has far fewer functions than Photoshop, what it does, it does very well. Over the years, I've bought Photoshop versions 3.5(or something like that), 4, 5 and now 7. I'm still getting used to 7, but so far find Gimp faster to use for about 80% of my tasks. However, if your doing a lot of work other than web graphics, then Photoshop is what you need.

Mozilla is an excellent browser and even my dad, a die-hard Windows user, 'discovered' it on his own and uses it as his prefered browser. MSIE is just one giant <A HREF="http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857333,00.asp" TITLE="eweek.com">problem</a eweek.com> in regards to features, usability and especially security. It's no wonder that MS is dropping the standalone version.

It would have been nice to see Konqueror mentioned, especially in place of Nautilus.

OpenOffice is bloated, but only compared to other F/OSS tools, it's a streamlined speed demon compared to MS-Office. I know quite a few non-tech people that actually prefer it. Personally, I liked MS-Word for Windows ver 2.0, but OpenOffice is the next best thing. Subsequent versions of MS-Office are just to bloated and buggy.

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Re:Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 06:33 PM
Gimp's UI blows.

Mozilla is slow to load. IE is not. Firebird is fast to load. The guy should compare IE with Firebird.

Open Office is very slow to load. MS Office isn't.

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Re:Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:23 PM
Thats because MS puts it right in to there O.S. to load. Othere software company's can't do this. Photoshop is also slow to load!

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Re:Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:31 PM
I really like Gimp's UI, especially the new one in Gimp 1.3, with its dockable panels. And, before you ask, I use Photoshop as a professional almost every day (currently version 7.0). Which one do I prefer? Well, they're pretty much equal as long as you don't do print work (then Photoshop wins). The UIs are different, but just because you're used to one doesn't mean the other one sucks...

IE is preloaded, that's why it's so fast to load. What he should have compared it to (if he was using KDE) is Konqueror, which can now be preloaded as well, and starts up in about a second.

Same thing for MS Office, parts are pre-loaded when you start Windows. I've heard you can do a pre-load trick with OO.o as well, but have yet to try it.

Anyway, aren't we a bit picky for a couple of measley seconds? If having to wait a few seconds more is the price to pay for having a full-featured office suite that costs hundreds of dollars less than the competition, then it's a small price indeed.

#

Re:Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:44 AM

Sigh…

Internet Explorer is fast simply due to the fact that it is a core component of the Windows desktop experience (how do you suppose the desktop itself is rendered? The Windows Program Manager, if it can really be called that anymore, is literally nothing more than a pre-loaded instance of Internet Explorer. This is the only reason that IE "loads" so much faster, because 70% of its code is already in memory, being used to manage the desktop). And <A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/" TITLE="microsoft.com">Microsoft</a microsoft.com> is constantly pulling tricks out of their hat to try and make it seem that everything loads faster; like "logging in" faster. Sure, the desktop appears quicker, but Windows is still completing the login process, and does so for several seconds, at least. The net result: for about 30 seconds after login, Windows appears to be slow and unresponsive.

From experience, I can tell you that <A HREF="http://www.mozilla.org/" TITLE="mozilla.org">Mozilla</a mozilla.org> starts every bit as fast, if you set it up to perform the same "pre-load trick" that IE performs. So does <A HREF="http://www.openoffice.org/" TITLE="openoffice.org">OpenOffice.org</a openoffice.org>, if you use the OO quickstarter. Of course, this uses memory, sometimes quite substantial amounts; then again, this is why Windows is such a memory hog. The short version is, Windows appears to be faster simply because it cheats, and one of the big ways in which it cheats is to consume more RAM than is really needed. If your solution is "Buy more RAM; it's cheap!", try to remember, not everyone can afford the 256MB or more of RAM that Windows, more or less, demands. There are more important things to spend hard-earned money on than the latest techno toys (I can't believe I'm saying that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff here that's already been covered; guess I got a bit carried away.

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Re:Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:09 PM
Of course IE and MS Office load fast on your machine, you haven't deleted the shortcuts in your startup folder that cause them to suck life from your pc even when you're not using them.

Try removing those shortcuts, restarting your PC, and loading Outlook!

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Re:Good tools - Mozilla, Konqueror, Gimp

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 04:02 PM
Actually, The Gimp is used by professionals and has not fewer functions than Photoshop, or these are ones not used. The Gimp is plugins driven, and you can do nearly anything with it. That's why FilmGimp came to life. Most people talk about the so called "printing" field where The Gimp lose against Photoshop : nope. They talk about CMJK printing, which is available in The Gimp with a plugin, whereas it comes included in Photoshop. Anyway, people bashing The Gimp do not use these features, as they are for professionals, and they couldn't even use one half of Gimp features as they don't need them, the same for Photoshop<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

Ookaze

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 06:39 PM
First: "Mozilla is a dog"
Then: "OpenOffice is a bloated monster."
And finally: "Balanced, fair reviews please!"

For most people, The GIMP is a fine piece of software, maybe not for professionals, but the article isn't talking about them.
Mozilla isn't so bad - I find it way better than IE for I have not encountered an annoying pop-up for a *long* time and neither does it crash.
OOo is bloated compared to AbiWord, but compared to Office XP, it is a streamlined minimalist application.

"Some Linux software *is* great, but lots isn't." The same applies for a lot of Windows, Mac & BeOS software too. Maybe it might be best just to say that there is a lot of variance in software quality regardless of platform.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:42 PM
>> Maybe it might be best just to say that there
>> is a lot of variance in software quality
>> regardless of platform


I like that comment. It's a good point, one worth noting.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:14 PM
Pay attention to whats he said about applications for tasks.

Sure Photoshop is better than the GIMP if your a pro artist (which he'd not). But it does the job for most people.

I agree Mozilla is slow, but I'd take galeon any day over IE.

OpenOffice is big and slow, I'll give you that. Give it time though. As he said still a few rough edges he'd like ironed out.

Comparing WMP to Gnome CD Player? Usability cuts both ways, IIRC XP defaults to WMP when you try and play a CD.

Viruses, well I've yet to see one in the wild. But of course it is possible.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:53 PM
It is a balanced, fair review. As a primary Windows user for many years, the switch to Linux has been a learning experience. Some of the software is bloated, but then, that's an app issue. OO works fine and translates most Microsoft dox. RealPlayer works on my machine just fine. Evolution works just like Outlook. The only real problem with linux is hunting around for and enabling drivers. But that really isn't all that different from hunting the web for drivers that Microsoft expects you to download only from them...and if you have a stand-alone driver, you can always re-install it later.

I have never run a virus checker on my machine, Windows or otherwise. (Well, occasionally when Windows was doing weird things and I got worried & downloaded a free trial--but in every case it was a Windows problem). I've just made a point of never opening attachments that might do weird things. Since Linux won't run<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe's, and you need to be root to really exploit Linux, from the new convert to Linux point of view, LINUX DOESN'T HAVE VIRUSES.

I'm not a Linux dweeb, I'm just an experienced computer hobbiest. If you used to modify your own Config.sys and autoexec.bat files in Windows 3.1, you can probably work on the same level with Linux and an X-windows GUI. Linux doesn't need to have a working version of Photoshop or Project for it to be a valuable tool for most people. As the article said, it is use that counts, not the latest and greatest.

Now if your title was merely a label for your comments, I understand where you're going with them...;-)

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:07 AM
The Gimp doesn't come close to Photoshop.

...for professionals (especially printwork). For someone who just wants to remove some red-eye, or paste a piece from one image onto another, The GIMP is plenty adequate.

The areas it's presently lacking (primarily, colorspace and colordepth issues, everything else really falls from that) will be addressed with the move to GEGL. And you can get the depth parts now with CinePaint (formerly FilmGIMP).

What I, personally, would really like would be analogs for Quark and Illustrator. Sketch is nice, but far further behind Illustrator than the GIMP is behind Photoshop.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:10 AM
The Gimp also has somewhat worse layer support than the latest versions of Photoshop. In particular, certain things like layers that just alter the contrast/color/etc of the lower layers based on a mask. Certain types of corrections can not be easily done because of these deficiencies (plus you can't easily colorize B/W images). For example, <A HREF="http://mmmaybe.gimp.org/tutorials/Sepia_Toning/" TITLE="gimp.org">this tutorial</a gimp.org> involves using multiple copies of the same image in the file. What happens when you want to make a correction to the base image? Things get very complex, very quickly.

#

Photoshop for linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 03:01 AM
You can get Photoshop working for linux if you relly
need to. http://www.codeweavers.com/home/

I use gimp myself.

#

Re:Photoshop for linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:07 AM
Great, so now I can introduce a second filesystem hierarchy (a Windows-ish one), and without being able to do a global install that each user on my machine can use? Not to mention, paying Adobe to continue being a Windows-only developer? No thanks. I want my money to go to Linux companies.

#

Re:Photoshop for linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 04:02 PM
I consider CodeWeavers a Linux company, don't you ?

You probably already payed for the Windows software, you might as well use it, if it's possible in a fairly cheap way

#

Quark Analog

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 09:09 AM
Try Scribus. It's now at 1.0 release and has most of Quark's features, some Quark doesn't have, and a Quark feel. It's scriptable with python, too.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: dazk on July 11, 2003 12:33 AM
You wrote the load of crap. Obviously you know that, otherwise you'd not have posted anonymously.

Linux software will get better wether people write positively or negatively about it. Telling others about certain apps that work well doesn't make developers stop improving.

The Gimp is not a Photoshop Replacement. It is somewhat similar but nobody sais it's as powerfull. The author of the article simply said, it has all he needs since he's not a graphics designer.

Firebird will be the future Mozilla Browser. Mozilla is already there and it works quite fast as soon as the libraries IE preloads at system start are there.

OO is a little slow, that's true. Talking about bloat though, what about MS Office?

Hmm, Windows Media Player was compared to several apps, partly xine and ogle. Sadly mplayer was left out completely. MPlayer alone is far better than the bloated Media Player. Media Player really is one of the worst Media Players available for Windows.

Viruses, of course, technically there are viruses for linux, pratically there are none.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:46 AM
Only trouble is that MPlayer is no longer actively maintained, or at least that's my understanding.

That and the code is one hack on top of another one. Read what the lead developer has to say about it, if you don't believe me.

I think people give too much weight to the whole multimedia issue, particularly when a nice DVD player that will play MP3s and SVDs is available today for $70.

Me, I am just happy with XMMS to listen to my oggs.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: dazk on July 11, 2003 09:19 AM
All true but even though it's a hack, it still is one of the best players around. If it's not maintained anymore, others will overtake it eventually.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 04:11 PM
Well, MPlayer is not anymore maintained by the lead developer, but then again, it's already better than all the competition, except perhaps Xine, which copied most of MPlayer's code (one of the reason the lead developer left).
If you don't believe me, try MoviX or even better, GeexBox : they use MPlayer. That's what my wife use at home, it can't be simpler, and it works with every file I throw at it.

#

Well duh!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:40 AM
Comparing free Gimp to $700 Photoshop. One would kinda expect the high priced option to be more capable. If you're such a professional, maybe you should buy the professional package. For your average user who wants to dabble with a graphics package, the Gimp is more than capable. As far as dogs go, IE is the complete ass of the entire browser market. OpenOffice is a big application. So is MS Office. Want some frustration? Try doing technical documents with Word. It completely sucks. So I guess it all comes down to what you're trying to do with with your "one-size-fits-all" software. Balanced and fair comments please!

#

Mozilla a dog?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 03:06 AM
I still primarily use xp as my os, but Mozilla has become my browser of choice. It performs faster and better for my use than IE. Tabbed browsing, fewer pop-ups, plenty of choice as far as skins go. If it's a dog, it's a champion breeder.

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:57 PM
- compare IE with Galeon, IE is far behind in the dust...
- compare mplayer with Media Player, again Media Player is in the dust...

pls really read and use mplayer and galeon, so that u can make a real comparison not just what u read on the magazine's..

#

One crappy post

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 07:45 PM
The troll that writes these kind of comments should keep in mind one thing: you're talking about software that has been written by "non professionals" in their spare time, and which is being given for free (yes, free of charge, even to ungrateful donkeys like yourself, buddy).

Should you take a moment to sum up how much money goes into that list of programs, in the windows side, you'll realize you spend 2,000 or more just to be "functional" with your computer. If you own Photoshop, you know very well how much it costs, 800 bucks or even more. On the linux side, all of these programs are free, you don't have to spend a penny to use it.

The fact is, you can be fully operative (and even more) spending nothing. No other OS gives you that. Comparing a free, public domain OS with one that charges you for every icon it puts in your desktop is not a fair thing to do.

Do you want pro graphics? There's the Corel suite for Linux, you moron, go and buy it. Just don't get here and bash against something that somebody did, and shared, out of pure passion. Gimp is quite good for me...

I feel sick everytime somebody starts comparing commercial software to public domain ones. Its just not the same ballpark. In Linux, you are given the work of thousands of people, for free, and nobody asks you anything in change. If you like it, well for you. If you don't, there's two paths to follow: either contribute to make it better, or just go back to Windoze and do all of us a BIG favor!

Linux is where it is now because a lot of people believed in the OS and the philosophy of Open Source. And, since this core of enthusiasts is not going to go, I can asure you it will get better everytime!

The Open Source, however, will not, and cannot, cover every possible app you may need. This is due to a number of issues, such as software patents and Intellectual Property over several formats and processes. There's room for commercial products as well, within Linux. If you don't like the Open Source tools, go and buy the commercial ones (a number of them are already available, such as the aforementioned Corel suite, and surely a lot will follow).

So, my advice to you is to stop whinning and get your wallet out, if you feel like having "Photoshop like" features. Or, you can launch your (free) GNU compiler and start making it better. If you are incapable of programming and you still pretend to be a "hard-ass-non-paying customer", there's plenty of commercial apps in the Windoze platform, so switch and free us from the burden of your presence.

#

Re:One crappy post

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 04:09 AM
i strongly agree with u buddy !!!

any one else making such senseless comments will get more details<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:grrr.

#

Re:One crappy post

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 27, 2003 06:03 AM
I am anonymous because I don't fell like creating an account, but I don't think that you should waite your time replying to guys like "Windoze". Let them stay with MS and ebentualy they wil come to relize what Linux actualy is! I can't agree with you more on the fact tha LINUX was built free of charge and still is a threat to MS! my emial is: lmicu2@yahoo.com

#

Want P-Shop? Get Crossover!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 06:46 AM
Codeweavers' Crossover supports Photoshop (up to 7 I believe), so why the kick?

Mozilla in Linux kicks IE all over the planet - esp. once you install Macromedia's Flash Plugin for it. There's also the matter of tabs - tabbing in Mozilla prevents the stuffed taskbar that the Windows UI gets plastered with when you use the browser for anything serious.

OO is no more bloated than MS Office; If Microsoft would ever publish their API's like they promised to long ago, the two would load with equal speed. OO in Linux runs at about the same speed. The only real problems I've seen in OO were the occasional conversions from<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc files that had some real goofball macro-based formatting in them... Star Office (as opposed to OO) clears those up quite well, and will still cost only $60 US or so (compared with up to $500+ US for MS Office.)

I use either XMMS (mp3's, ogg files), grip (CD Player), or Xine (.wmf files, DIVX files, and all video). No DRM in any of 'em, either.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...so what's so "unfair"?

To be fair, Linux does have the occasional virus, but one can count the actual number of contagious ones on one hand over Linux' entire lifetime. Care to wager on how many Windows has had to suffer by comparison?

#

Re:What a load of crap

Posted by: unoengborg on July 13, 2003 11:49 AM
It must have bin a long time since you used Mozilla, there is very little differance in speed between later versions of Mozila on Linux and the latest version of IE on windows.

Shortly after Mozilla 1.0 was released, I read an article that could name 101 things that Mozilla could do that was impossible in IE. Some of them was more or less irrelevant, or just slight improvements, but at least 50 of them was of the I can't live without them kind. E.g. correct handling of stylesheets and popup blocking.

In the early days of Mozilla people who designed web pages had to whatch out, so they didn't create pages that was only viewable by IE, as IE had so much more features than Netscape/Mozilla. Today the situation is reversed. Now IE is the low end browser you have to test your pages with.

Since then Mozilla has gone through an enormeous evolution. We now have tabs, type ahead searching, an e-mail program that can be trained to filter out spam etc.

Nobody in their right mind still uses IE. You are right that Firebird is slightly faster than Mozilla but as of Mozilla version 1.4 the difference is very small indeed. So most people prefer Mozilla as they not just get a browser but also a very good e-mail client.

Compare OpenOffice to MS-Office and you will find that the amount of bloat is about the same in both applications. But in that bloat you find a lot more that you actually have use for in OO than in MSO. Look at things like the better database connectivity in OO. Look at how references are handled. I would certainly prefer OO to MSO if I was to write an academic paper and handle a lot of references. Try do things like creating a table of contents in an enlish version of MS Office. Then send that document to a friend abroad that uses a Swedish version of MS-Office and have him make some changes to the document and update the table of contents, it won't work. In Openoffice it does.

In all the bloat it seams to me that OpenOffice have more features that actually facilitates work, while ms concentrates on less estential features - e.g. like being able to configure how you want clippy to look today.

Even if I have a MS-Office for my win2k laptop, I very seldom use it, instead I prefer OpenOffice. I will probably use it even more seldom when OpenOffice 1.1 gets released.

At least for scientific papers and technical documentation OpenOffice is far supperior to MS-Office.

So it's really funny that you should mention two Linux applications that are far superior to their corresponding windows application when you try to claim that Linux users lie to themselves about the greatness of opensource apps.

#

Have you ever used GIMP?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 22, 2003 05:07 PM
*smile*
It's funny to read all this postings. But one thing I noticed. Every comment, except one, says that Gimp is behind Photoshop. How did you guys get this idea?

I assume that most people are no professionals using gimp for some task they have to do. And so they are unsecure with their opinion, saying GIMP is behind PhotoShop.

There are parts where GIMP differs from PhotoShop and vise versa.

But you have to keep in mind folks that both programs have such a high level that you never again should say GIMP is behind Photoshop. That is not true.
People might say GIMP has no MACRO functions. Well, thats right for the moment. A missing function Photoshop havend had till Version6.
But GIMP and FILMGIMP or better Cinepaint, as it is called now, have a lot of functions Photoshop does not have. Making my daily live a lot easier.

And one thing I like the most is, it's fast. In loading its unbeatable and in workflow too, once you learned how to use it.

Please don't say it's behind Photoshop. It's different. And tell my another program that is cabable to be compared with Photoshop.

Best regards
UK

#

xmms + mp3s

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 05:48 PM
xmms normally can play mp3s, just redhat doesn't include the capability...
go to www.xmms.org
and scroll down to
Redhat 8 update
there it has links to the plugin, xmms is really very nice if your used to winamp... also mplayer can be quite a nice player.

#

Cameras

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 06:56 PM
Use gphoto2 for cameras.
The one included in RH9 doesn't support the latest Cameras (eg. Canon G3), but the latest source supports.

#

Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 07:18 PM
For the average user, you might be right that OpenOffice can replace Excel. But Excel has a lot of data-analysis capabilities that either are not in OO at all, or are vastly inferior in OO. Engineers and people in mathematical finance rely on them. For example, Tools | Solver in Excel.

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:56 PM
Forgive me my ignorance - what exactly is "Tools | Solver" in Excel?

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:39 PM
It alows you to optimize the value in a single cell by automatically varying the values in a set of related cell.

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:12 PM
OHH!!!! You mean like Enron and Worldcom accountants did?

#

Has anyone even tried? (Solver &amp; Regression h

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 02:51 AM
I've just downloaded the Windows version of OpenOffice 1.0.3, and it has something called Goal Seek. From the description you gave, it sounds like it may be what you are looking for!

As far as linear regression, take a look at the SLOPE and INTERCEPT functions in the Help files. Also look at the mentions of "See also:" beneath each.

Want a regression line in your chart? Go to Insert->Statistics and choose what type of regression line you want.

It seems like people haven't even really looked for this stuff... These things may not be in exactly the same spots as in ExHell, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Maybe the people who claim that MS is posting FUD on these message boards isn't far off?

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:15 AM
What is solver?

Basically, solver solves a multivariable equation inherent in a dataset for a given variable to within a user-defined statistical margin of error. If you have a TI-85 calculator you are probably familiar with its solver; the Excel solver is like that on steroids. It uses an intuitive interface so while someone will need to know math to use it, they won't have to learn some arbitrary computer language syntax (ie: Maple or Mathlab). Also, it is very fast.

People like economists use this feature almost constantly. For example, my Econ professor believes the Excel solver to be worth the price of Excel and Windows alone. He would never switch unless the new platform had an equivalent feature.

This would be a wonderful feature for OOo or Gnumeric to have. Unfortunately, it is a rather difficult thing to do programmatically, as it requires not only programming skills but also advanced math and statistics, and getting a good user interface is also critical. I would love to help out on this, but I just don't have the math and statistics training to do it. Hopefully someone in the OSS community will though. I would just love to be able to get my econ prof to switch.

#

For help on your solver problem...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 09:32 AM
go to this url...

http://linas.org/

and write to the fellow whose home page this is!
As he is the prime geek doing GNU Cash
AND he seems to know quite a bit about programming, Linux, math (and more) and he might be able to help with your problem.
I don't have time to write - do you?

#

Cool web site...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 16, 2003 09:33 AM
This guy is a positive thinker!
Interesting Linux stuff all over this site!

#

Take a look at Goal Seek

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 02:54 AM
I've never used Solver in Excel, but from what people have been saying, Goal Seek in OpenOffice 1.0.3 may be what you are looking for to get your econ prof to switch.

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 11:17 AM
My Gnumeric has a feature called Solver (and another called Goal Seeker btw). But I don't know if it does exactly what you said MS Excel does, I know nothing about Economy and use spreadsheets for basic stuff only. You might check it though. Gnumeric v1.10.13.

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:05 PM
However, the XLS format is not published, so it is useless for mining. The OO formats are TRUE XML documents, and can be deciphered by any XML aware application on any platform without even using OO for reading them at all. This allows all of that lost information in manager's spreadsheets and documents to be suddenly a real source of useful data.

#

Excel functions

Posted by: Charles Tryon on July 10, 2003 10:21 PM
I'm no Excel guru, but one function I've used a lot is the Linear Regression function that allows you to take a series of X-Y values, plot a best-fit line and extrapolate it out. This is very simple in Excel - highlight the two columns of values and then drag the box out to extrapolate. I've searched the docs many times and found no way to do this in OO. If someone can enlighten me, I'd be delighted!

#

Re:Excel functions

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 09:56 AM
Yes, linear regression in Excel is easy. (Relatively speaking, it's a LOT easier to do in Quattro Pro, but I won't go there). The problem with linear regression in Excel is that it gives the WRONG answer. Use another package if yuou need to do linear regression. (I have yet to test OO or gnumeric.) This is a well documented bug in Excel. Its linear regression is faulty.

Engineer in Australia

#

Re:Excel functions - Consider yourself delighted

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 02:59 AM
In OpenOffice 1.0.3, take a look at the SLOPE (and I believe the INTERCEPT) commands in the Help. Also take a look at the "See also:" stuff at the bottom of the SLOPE help. Several commands for other types of regression than linear, and for extrapolating.

To put a regression line/curve in your chart, go to Insert->Statistics...

It does seem to exist. I have never used it on a regular basis, though.

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:16 AM
No people in engineering and science use tools like R and other real statistical packages. Excel is just a toy compared to those.

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 06:04 AM
Ehm,

Engineers use matlab which was written for unix and is also available for linux, not excell if you use excell your not an engineer. (Their are other programs like matlab, but excell is not one of them)

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: bcurry on July 12, 2003 04:55 AM
Now that's one of the large loads of crap I've ever read. What an "all encompassing" statement. That's like using "never" and "always".

Actually, Most engineers use spreadsheets (I know, I'm an electrical engineer) for most of their work. I love Matlab and Maple but for everyday work most engineers turn to a spreadsheet for the "quick & dirty" work.

When I was doing thesis work, I used Maple and Matlab. If I need to do some theoretical design work, I might return to the big iron software like that. For everyday use, I use OO.org or Excel .

Bruce
Palatine, IL

#

OpenOffice-OpenGroupware-GNUCash-MySQL-combo?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 10:16 AM
The combination of OpenOffice-OpenGroupware-GNUCash-MySQL(or other database)... could be very interesting to 3rd party integrators for the final solution.

The only thing needed is the Tax (including payroll) part for GNUCash part... etc. However, you can't get away without charging for updates to tax tables (unless your government wants to adopt the idea of providing tax tables for OpenSource financial applications for free - as they could provide hooks to their own software on the receiving end this way as well).

#

Re:Excel vs OpenOffice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 09:48 AM
I cannnot move to OO until I can find something which will allow my old Excel Macros -- I mean the old style macros from around Version 3.0 -- to run. While I now use Excel 97, I have neither learned nor use the new macro language. In fact, all my new macros are external ones written in Perl. However, if OO would run those really old macros I would switch to it in a heartbeat.

#

RealMedia

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:34 PM
<A HREF="http://mplayerhq.hu/" TITLE="mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a mplayerhq.hu> as well as programs based on it like <A HREF="http://kplayer.sf.net/" TITLE="sf.net">KPlayer</a sf.net> can play most if not all RealMedia streams if you use the current CVS version.

#

Re:RealMedia

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 04:23 PM
You do not need the latest CVS version.
MPlayer 0.90 plays all these streams on my machine at home without the need of Real Player (and with a better interface).

Ookaze

#

workspace pane

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 08:50 PM
Win xp does have multiple desktop support, but it takes a few seconds to switch between desktops even on my 1700+. Plus, it will kill my apps from time to time.... isn't Windows wonderful stuff...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

#

Re:workspace pane

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 03:02 AM
Sounds more like "Workspace PAIN!"

#

WinE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:13 PM
"WinE" does _not_ stand for Windows Emulator!
WINE means (it's a recursive acronym, btw) WINE Is Not an Emulator - because it isn't!
WINE is a re-implementation of the Win32-API on linux.

my 2-EUR-cents.
(deucalion)

#

Re:WinE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:21 PM
Just to clarify, an emulator takes each machine instruction in the binary and executes it in software. That would make the app slower by more than an order of magnitude. What wine does is to provide an alternative implementation of the windows libraries. Therefore, in theory, it can be as fast as or faster than windows. In practice though, optimization is currently not a priority of the wine devs (getting programs to work at all is!) and so you'll find programs to be somewhat slower, especially startup time.

#

Re:WinE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:48 PM
For example, WINE, unlike an emulator, will get you seeing Windows apps with anti-aliased fonts.

#

Re:WinE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 20, 2003 09:46 PM
And why can't an emulator do that?

#

Re:WinE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 04:16 PM
Actually there was a lot of confusion about all of that in the early days of WINE... Some members of the team prefered Windows Emulator others (including the founder of WINE forget his name go to www.winehq.org to find out... I'm too damn lazy..) prefered WINE is not an Emulator - In the end the later won out. It doesn't matter anymore.

#

All that free software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:15 PM
You said Many first-time Linux users get lost simply because they do not know what software does the job they want to do.


  That's Red Hat's fault - they lay out their menus like crap. For newbies I'd recommend mandrake instead because its more intuitive and aimed at the first time linux user with better/easier config tools and much nicer menus in any WM (windows manager) or DE (desktop environment)

#

Re:All that free software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:05 AM
You obviously haven't used RedHat Linux for at least *2* major releases.

#

Re:All that free software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:00 AM
Agreed. Red Hat's menus have greatly improved in their last two releases. As for the Mandrake recommendation, I'd recommend nothing less than the latest, 9.1. Previous versions had an irritating (and Microsoft-like) tendency to include software that wasn't ready for primetime -- very irritating and frustrating for new Linux users. Mandrake 9.1, however, is a (flawed) work of art. I found very few items with bad UI designs or which didn't work. This was a refreshing change from Mandrake releases of old.

#

Re:All that free software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:52 AM
I also agree that Mandrake's 9.1 is the best way to enter the Linux world. Polished, powerful and intuitive.

If you can wait a few months, I have been playing with cooker and 9.2 promised to be even better.

#

Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 09:48 PM
The only thing holding me back from using linux more is the lack of a good video editing program... I too have been watching linux grow for a number of years and know that the day will come when I will switch to linux completely.

Does anyone know of any linux based video editing programs similar to premiere or final cut?

Rod
rodvis@onlink.net

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 10:15 PM
I think there is a video editing program called vision2000.

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 10:22 PM
Have a look at Cinelerra (http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3). Haven't used it myself but it's open source.

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:36 PM
Cinelerra is pretty powerful, and its development pace is quite fast. On the bad side, it still needs improvement in UI design, and doesn't have all features that Final Cut Pro has. However, it can do real-time rendering and distribute its workload on a network of computers, and has most of the necessary tools for professional video editing. You could do a really nice editing job with it.

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:34 PM
There's also one called Kino - it's made more for captured video than Cinelerra. Cinelerra itself is made more for professional work and can be quite slow and awkward on an older machine - lots of RAM always helps - and it has a tendency to crash (so save your work often!), but I like it!

#

Re:Try SuSE

Posted by: Chris Spencer on July 10, 2003 11:36 PM
I'm not big into video editing, but I know that SuSE comes with fully licenced copies of MainActor Sequencer and MainActor Video Editor.

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 10, 2003 11:41 PM
I haven't used it, and I'm not sure it is what you're looking for, but <A HREF="http://cinepaint.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">CinePaint</a sourceforge.net> (was filmgimp) is available. It's used by major studios (according to the Web site) and is contributed to by the likes of Rhythm & Hues, Sony Pictures Imageworks, DreamWorks, and ILM.

Michael
(redbeard@mdjohnson.us)

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:18 AM
Pardon my rant, BUT, doesn't anyone ever use Google? Or any other search engine for that matter?

I just went to Google and typed in "linux video editing" and got tons of links. Clicking on two of them, I immediately found out that the following software packages handle video editing (note that I'm not necessarily saying this is all that's out there for video editing for Linux):

Kino
Cinelerra
MainActor
Broadcast 2000
Crow

I don't know the quality of these packages. But most of this is free/open source. You can download it and try it with its full functionality.

I don't know, maybe you have downloaded and tried these packages. But it seems to me that a lot of times when people say "I can't live without application XXXXXXX," what they really mean is "I haven't looked for a Linux equivalent and I'm too lazy to try the software out there."

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:36 AM
Does anyone know of any linux based video editing programs similar to premiere or final cut?

Dunno about similar to premiere or final cut.

I use KINO to suck in digital video over a FireWire link, just as final cut or premiere would do. Then, I can do frame by frame cutting and pasting, and save in raw video format.

Then, to compress the video, I can use ffmpeg.

To make audio tracks, I use ffmpeg to suck out the old original audio track, and wavtools and sox to cut and mix wav files, before I use ffmpeg to substitute the new wav file for the old audio.

To make title pages, I make a page using GIMP and then use image2raw to make a raw digital video, and suck this in as part of the KINO editing.

This is obviously far less painful using final cut or premiere (however, it crashes far less often than premiere). The fully integrated solution is just not there yet in linux, although all the capabilities are.

Feel free to email me if you get stuck trying to do any of this.

-dblake AT phy.ucsf.edu

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 11:14 AM
I enjoyed reading this description of the steps you take...

Your process reflects the Linux/Unix way - providing tools that do one or two things VERY WELL, and are able to work together to accomplish the larger task. This is one of the things I love about Linux/Unix... instead of trying to cram everything into one monstrous program that won't work with others.

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 05:28 PM
For audio editing, have a look at <A HREF="http://www.metadecks.org/software/sweep/" TITLE="metadecks.org">sweep</a metadecks.org>.

#

there are many apps like that

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 03:02 AM
...but nothing yet like Final Cut or Premiere, sorry.

You could try though the following:
Cinelerra
Kino
Avidemux

Google is your friend.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

#

Re:Video editing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 09:23 PM
Perhaps not similar to Premiere or Final Cut, but if you have some expertise, there's a 3D app called Blender (now open-source) that happens to have an excellent video editor. Even if its primary use is to sequence 3D renderings, it can be used to sequence almost anything, and it has quite a few filters available as plugins. And, BTW, Blender's next version (2.28) will (tentatively) bring non-linear editing to the table as well.

#

Ways and means for getting things done

Posted by: tykeal on July 10, 2003 11:53 PM

Been a long time RedHat user here's a few things you can do.

  1. www.freshrpms.net is your friend<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
  2. apt4rpm is also your friend (an apt repository for RedHat at FreshRPMs) Download and install the apt rpm and then do the following to get up and running nicely:

    # apt-get update; apt-get install synaptic

    Launch Synaptic from RH->System Settings->Synaptic (or synaptic on the cli)

    NOTE that this can be used in replacement of RedHat Network if you want as well.

  3. The MP3 plugin for XMMS is available for install through apt from FreshRPMS
  4. MPlayer can be installed through apt as well. You will probably want to install the mplayer-gui package as well. It won't install the codecs for things like Quicktime, but the tarball can be gotten from the <A HREF="http://www.mplayerhq.hu/" TITLE="mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a mplayerhq.hu> site and installed via their instructions.
  5. Real does have a player for Linux, you can also install the realplayer codecs to work under mplayer
  6. There is a Mozilla plugin for mplayer (once you have it installed) available at <A HREF="http://mplayerplug-in.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">SourceForge</a sourceforge.net>, they have RPMs available as well. This is nice as it gives you the ability to use media formats directly in browser ala MS Windows users
  7. Acrobat Reader is availabe from <A HREF="http://www.adobe.com/" TITLE="adobe.com">Adobe</a adobe.com> for those few PDF files that don't render well in xpdf or ggview

#

Regarding the application matrix...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:01 AM
GAIM runs under Windows. Also, Trillian handles the same protocols (it's what I use instead of GAIM when I'm forced onto a Windows box).

For file-sharing, investigate the gnutella clients. gtk-gnutella has served me well in that area so far.

#

Re:Regarding the application matrix...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 05:48 PM
At gaim.sf.net there's a build for windows...

#

Re:Regarding the application matrix...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 20, 2003 09:49 PM
OpenOffice, dia, and Apache run under Windows too. And there is plenty of anti-spam software for windows. Sounds like The MS Guy might want to do a bit more research.

#

A couple of points

Posted by: Chris Spencer on July 11, 2003 12:02 AM
I'd like to point out that he reviewed RedHat, which is not a likely choice for most newcommers to Linux. Personally, I would have recommened Mandrake, as Mandrake has support for some WinModems out of the box. I also have a Conexant WinModem, and <A HREF="http://www.linuxant.com/" TITLE="linuxant.com">linuxant</a linuxant.com> provides drivers that work flawlessly (although they didn't used to work so well).

I also noticed (maybe he didn't realize it though) that he recommended almost all GNOME apps. Most beginners are more comfortable with KDE, as it is more complete than GNOME. Most KDE apps are much easier to use than their GNOME counterparts. Real Player does make a Linux version (it comes shipped with SuSE), and for file sharing, you can use LimeWire (it's gnutella based) or giFT with one of its numerous front ends.

As far as media players go, I used MPlayer up until yesterday. Then I uninstalled it and compiled xine and use the Kaffeine front-end. (I couldn't get Totem to work). Your biggest problem is going to be supported media formats. I don't know about other distos, but SuSE ships versions of MPlayer, avifile, and mjpegtools with limited functionality (potential copyright violations.) You'll have to install the codecs for formats like avi, asf, DivX, and others, then compile the program you want from source.

Good Review!

#

Re:A couple of points

Posted by: John on July 11, 2003 03:30 AM
Most beginners are more comfortable with KDE, as it is more complete than GNOME.

Well, I suppose, if by "more complete" you mean "more bloated with needless features that will scare away most new users."

Most KDE apps are much easier to use than their GNOME counterparts.

My experience is the exact opposite. Gnome apps are better at minimalizing the interface if they follow Gnome's HIG. The most common options are easily available, while the rarely used options are buried inside advanced areas or inside GConf (kinda like Windows Registry). The KDE camp has been focused on putting as many useless features and eye-candy as they can into their desktop, while the Gnome camp has been doing the opposite. Two years ago I would have been arguing the other way.. That KDE was easier for newbies and that GNOME was for those more familiar with Linux, now I believe they have swapped roles. KDE is now the intimidating monolith, while GNOME is the clean simple, easy interface. Apearantly you haven't used GNOME for a long time.

#

Total Ignorance

Posted by: Chris Spencer on July 11, 2003 04:58 AM
You see, you're a prime example of the reason why I personally despise the GNOME community even though I like the desktop. Dude chill out for a minute - it's not always this "us against them" mentality.

"the KDE camp" ?? "Apparenly I haven't used GNOME for a long time" ? I just used GNOME 2.2 like 5 minutes ago.

I swear I always run into people like yourself who just can't accept the fact that some people like different things. It's your elitest attitude who keeps a lot of people from using Linux in the first place. Personally, I like and use them both (as well as XFce for that fact), but that doesn't mean I can't state an honest opinion or point out the flaws of either one of them. I hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but newbies don't care about fast and lighweight - they just want things to work as easily as possible. And honestly, most of them DO care about eye candy (not saying GNOME is ugly, cause I personally like it's appearence).

You just need to grow up dude...

#

Re:Total Ignorance

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:52 PM
Well, its not as bad as the people who say redHat is another Microsoft, because of course Microsoft contributes to Open Source code and gives away an Operating System.

I'd really like to see that stop, there are distributions that you have to pay for, distributions that give a cut-down version for free, and distributions that try to emulate Windows with a Linux base. No Linux vendor acts like Microsoft, none could, but even if Microsofts market-share or user-based was gained I consider it far more likely for another distribution to be "the next Microsoft"" than RedHat.

#

Mandrake not too hot with winmodems

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 01:01 AM
I installed Mandrake 9.1 a while back and I have a WinModem using the Intel 536EP chip (not an uncommon WinModem chip). Guess what - Mandrake refused to recognise it and, amazingly, popped up a warning dialog to say "you have proprietary hardware - please go to http://www.linmodems.org/". Yes, no Net connection and the install process tells me to go online to download a driver - well done Mandrakesoft...

I personally found Mandrake 9.1 better than Red Hat for some things (like handling your Windows partitions sensibly, unlike Red Hat) and worse in others - either distro is OK for newbies, IMHO.

#

File sharing and real files

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:06 AM
I'd recommend Limewire. It's written in java so it'll run just about anywhere.

Also Real does have a realplayer for Linux that works just fine for me.

#

Bah!

Posted by: msimm on July 11, 2003 07:43 AM
I purchased a copy of Limewire I've used with jre 1.4. I'm not impressed. I've compared search results (both quantity and quality) with Limewire, <A HREF="http://gtk-gnutella.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">GTK-Gnutella</a sourceforge.net>, <A HREF="http://napshare.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">NapShare</a sourceforge.net> and <A HREF="http://xnap.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">XNap</a sourceforge.net> and I've consistently found <A HREF="http://xnap.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">XNap</a sourceforge.net> to provide the best results (by a long shot).

Its also written in Java, its easy to install and has a fancy self update feature. I've even put through feature requests (very politely of course) and had them responded to *and* implemented.

Oh, and its GPL'ed. Nice.

I wish LimeWire had worked because I'm at the age where I see the value of paying for high quality software, but I'm sure the XNap team would apprecaite your praise or donations!

#

RedHat Centric

Posted by: dazk on July 11, 2003 12:25 AM
Hi,

of course your article is RedHat centric since you write about RedHat. It seems though, that because of RedHat's Gnome fetish you missed some very fine apps.

For webediting, try Quanta. It's similar to homesite, offers various shortcuts for common things and an integrated preview with konqueror.

Most of the other apps I'd have suggested were already named by others.

#

Re:RedHat Centric

Posted by: OwlWhacker on July 11, 2003 03:39 PM
Uh-huh-huh-huh! You said "Gnome fetish".

#

Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:44 AM
I'm a RH user (have been for awhile), but there are three software titles that keep me tied to Windows:


MS Flight Simulator and Madden NFL: Sure, they're games, but they're my two favorites and have no equivalents in Linux. This keeps me dual-booting.


Quicken: Please don't say GnuCash. With its planning and internet banking and bill paying features, there is nothing in Linux that's even close to Quicken. I use it in a Win4Lin session.


I know the lack of cross-platform offerings for these titles is the responsibility of MS, EA Sports, and Intuit, not RH or any other Linux distro. But that's not the point. The point is it's fine to say there are Linux titles out there which make a 100% conversion possible for you , but for the vast majority of computer users (and the ways they use their computer), Linux just isn't there yet.

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:56 AM
Quicken works great in crossover office.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:12 AM
I'm not sure about the games since I've been dealing with the FPS side to feed my addiction lately.

However, for Linux and checkbook management, I've recently started using MoneyDance (http://moneydance.com/). I definitely prefer it much more to GnuCash since I couldn't quite get the recurring split entries to work correctly.

There are still some features that don't exist in MoneyDance that exist in Quicken. That is to be expected, but there are some internet accessible features already available and it may support what you are trying to do with Quicken already.

I think there was a review comparing MondayDance, GnuCash and one other piece of software here not too long ago, but I haven't been able to find a link for it yet.

-HTH-

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:46 AM
Not to pick on you, but your comment makes me wonder:
Was Windows incomplete for you before Madden NFL was released?

Also, keep in mind you haven't been charged anything for the software; rather than complaining about its weaknesses on a web forum it would probably be much more constructive to submit patches to the developers for the features you want.

If you aren't a coder, you could always help them with documentation so they can be more productive, you could submit bug reports, or in most cases donating a small fraction of what you'd pay for the commercial equivalent to the project is a big help.

(It's free as in speech, it's only free as in beer if you don't give anything back.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) )

Also, for MSFS: I've heard good things about FlightGear as a flight simulator, if you haven't tried it. I don't think it's as polished graphically, but it's got some pretty cool features as I understand it.

Anyway, if that came off as a flame don't take it too personally.

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:16 AM

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:51 AM
As the poster of the post you replied to, I'll say I don't take it personally. I will say, though, that you missed the point. The article didn't address the level of completion of a given OS. It addressed and gave examples of Linux software titles that do equivalent tasks of Windows titles.

Windows is not incomplete, nor is Linux. However, one runs Madden NFL, and one does not. Pointing that out in a web forum isn't complaining, nor is it "bashing" Linux or the open source movement. It's simply stating fact and drawing attention to a situation which represents a transition barrier for most people.

Your suggestions for being constructive are good ones, but are not in context with what's being discussed. I am constructive, we'll leave it at that.

Regarding FlightGear, it's where MSFS was five to eight years ago. It's also a good example of how some projects miss the mark. Instead of reinventing the wheel, maybe developers should focus on figuring out how to make the best wheel ever made fit on our car.

My opinion, nothing more...

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: dazk on July 11, 2003 09:31 AM
Actually it's the same over and over and over again. Since we are on Newsforge it goes like that:

1) Nice story of someone who now runs linux.

2) Someone says app x is only there on windows (sometimes that's why linux is crap is added, sometimes not)

and then it goes back and forth. I really wonder why people tend to forget that the important thing for a computer is to help you get your job done or help you have some fun gaming or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... As the author of the article explained, he found that linux lets him get his job done. That might not be the case for everyone. Basically that means if linux doesn't help you get the job done, don't use it and use something that does. If that other thing is Windows, that's ok. For me, Windows is the ultimate heart attack accelerator. Whenever I use it, I'm pissed about it always knowing better what I want to do. Of course most of the time I know what I want to do and just have to confirm those annoying questions. Linux on the other hand works perfectly with my hardware and I can do everything I want the way I want to do it. That's enough reason for me but might be completely bad for someone else. But who really cares? The good thing is that there are choices.

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 12:58 PM
Well said, I agree people should use what they feel comfortable with, if you like Windows so be it if you like Linux same thing, or even FreeBSD, whatever OS works for you is the one you should use.

By the way I run solely RH9 and it does everything I want it to do while giving me flexibility, but this is my choice.

#

Re:Titles that don't do Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 05:28 PM
"The goal of the FlightGear project is to create a sophisticated flight simulator framework for use in research or academic environments, for the development and pursuit of other interesting flight simulation ideas, and as an end-user application. "

Flightgear is not realy made as a game. Flightgear is a simulator with focus on correct physics. It is becoming bether and bether as a game, but the focus is the physics.

Flightgear is used in academic research all over the world.

#

Multiple GUI Logins

Posted by: Leo il Leone on July 11, 2003 02:01 AM
I suggest you use gdmflexiserver to let your brother log in. It does two things:
1: It starts another GDM session (the graphical login you get when you boot up) so that he can log in as he would if you weren't logged in (no startx necessary), and
2: It locks your loging with xscreensaver so that if he hits ctrl-alt-f7 to get back to your login (his will be on f8) he can't access the programs you have running.
Try it... you'll like it.

#

filesharing

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:13 AM
Personally I prefer edonkey over kazaa or bittorrent.

http://ed2k-gtk-gui.sourceforge.net/download.shtm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr>

download a core binary from the same page instead of from the official edonkey site.

The installation and configuration could be smoother, but once it's up and running it works great.

#

xmule

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 02:20 AM
www.xmule.org

'nuff said.

#

KDE

Posted by: Chris Spencer on July 11, 2003 02:14 AM
I don't know about RedHat 9, but on my installation of KDE 3.1, all you have to do is look on the menu and select "Start New Session". KDE will then hide your current session. You can then hit ctrl + alt + F7 to switch back to your session if you need to, or Just wait until your brother is done. As soon as your brother logs out, it will automatically restore your previous session. Easy as pie<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

Re:GNOME

Posted by: Chris Spencer on July 11, 2003 11:17 PM
Oh I forgot- GNOME 2.2 has that feature too under the system tools menu. You just have to be running GDM in order to use it.

#

File Sharing

Posted by: erik s fredricks on July 11, 2003 02:20 AM
Skip KazaaLite and go with <A HREF="http://www.sensi.org/~ak/pyslsk/" TITLE="sensi.org">Pyslsk</a sensi.org>, a Linux front-end for Soulseek. It's a much better service than Kazaa, and the interface is much less cluttered.

 

#

Similar article

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:37 AM
at <A HREF="http://www.tweakhound.com/mdk9/mandrake9.htm" TITLE="tweakhound.com"> </a tweakhound.com>

#

http://www.tweakhound.com/mdk9/mandrake9.htm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:41 AM

Polaroid Fun Flash 640SE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 02:53 AM

Both the Polaroid 640SE, and the Polaroid FunFlash 640 are <A HREF="http://gphoto.sourceforge.net/proj/libgphoto2/support.php" TITLE="sourceforge.net">listed</a sourceforge.net> as supported cameras, albeit tagged as EXPERIMENTAL, in the latest version of the <A HREF="http://gphoto.sourceforge.net/" TITLE="sourceforge.net">GPhoto2</a sourceforge.net> project.

I don't know whether this means they actually work, but it's a start…

#

windows to Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 03:56 AM
I'm also M$ certified. It brings me in a paycheck. However I'vd been using Linux as my main machine @ home for about 2 months now. I've been working with Linux about a year now. IT's got a few things to overcome to be a real option for most users as a desktop OS, however it's not far off in my opinion. I've had a Linux box on-line @ work for 4 months now and it's becoming a invaluable tool in trouble shooting and locking down my WIndows Network. I even have the boss tolked into implimenting a Linux based NAS server, because of price. I just grin in the irony of using Linux to secure Windows<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

The Penguin will take over, resistance is futile!!

#

more suggestions

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:32 AM
Well I guess you havn't discovered mplayer yet..anyway lets go through your
table...

Browse and view files on my local machine - Try also KDE's konquerer
View images (single images or a series of images sequentially) - konquerer
Dial-up to the Internet - kppp
Browse Web pages - firebird
Check email - kmail and thunderbird are alternatives
also try pan for news groups
all multimedia - mplayer of course
mp3s - xmms

spreadsheat - gnumeric !!!

^^ this one is very important. the development version of gnumeric (soon to
be gnumeric2) is going to rival excel! OpenOffice oocalc doesn't even come
close to gnumeric's capabilities infact it is probably the worst, even KDE's
kcalc is better than open office, but gnumeric is definately the leader of
the pack by a VERY wide margin.

create web sites - quanta
filesharing - lots of new stuff going on here: limewire, bittorrent, freenet,
gnutella2 apps, etc.
pdf viewing - you can just use acroread

optimize desktop use - check out super karamba

if you like the windows look & feel you might think the project over at
xpde.com is interesting as well

oh and you forgot to mention cd burning apps like k3b, and you should try
winex (transgaming.com) for your windows games.

hope this helps!

#

there's nothing magic about mplayer

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 03:06 AM
xine can play all formats supported by mplayer, has more interfaces and better integrated with the desktops (Gnome, KDE) and has a better Mozilla plugin.

#

Performance: MPlayer vs. Windows Media Player

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 05:36 AM
Mplayer 0.90rc5 on Linux, Duron 800 256 MB RAM vs. Windows Media Player 9.0 on Windows XP, Athlon 1000 256 MB RAM. Regarding the performance, MPlayer is FAST. Repeat: FAST. I tried multiple movies with MPlauyer and WMP. MPlayer outperformed WMP on all of them.

The most funiest joke of it all is that MPlayer ported to Cygwin (port done myself) is still more fast then WMP. Beats me!

While i'm at it there are interesting frontends for MPlayer including for: KDE, Mozilla, Konqueror. Love 'em!

#

Re:Performance: MPlayer vs. Windows Media Player

Posted by: dazk on July 11, 2003 09:37 AM
Nice thing about mplayer and other linux players is that they usually handle incomplete and broken files much more gracefully than WMP. At least they try, WMP just refuses to work. Same thing with files that are in use by another application. But that's more like a windows issue.

#

Re:Performance: MPlayer vs. Windows Media Player

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 24, 2003 10:03 PM
here is another proof..
I watch 350M divx tv series episodes on a celeron 433 laptop with the following

mplayer -vo xvidix -framedrop

with NO SLOWDOWN and about 25-50% processor usage

#

XMMS Plugin

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:09 AM
You can fix the whole xmms mp3 issue by downloading the mp3123 plugin from xmms.org, they have some rpms built for redhat 8/9

#

Great article!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:59 AM
And great replies!

Linux development is going so fast I´ll soon start to feel motion sickness!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-P

I´ve been using Linux only at home for some 5 years. At work, I use both Windows and Linux.

From my day-to-day experience, I find Windows more difficult to use on the desktop.

Well, I just wrote to say thanks to everyone.

Lee Nooks.

PS.: For those who don´t mind using closed-source applications, try Opera. IMHO, it is somewhat ahead of the others...

#

Re:Great article!

Posted by: Chris Spencer on July 11, 2003 08:56 AM
I used to use Opera, but not anymore. It being closed source, or the rumor of it containing spyware didn't bother me. I stopped using it after I started getting the occasional corrupt download. I then heard that Opera wasn't completely standards compliant, and that probally was the cause of my problem. This was like version 6.10 though, so they may have corrected this issue by now.

"Why be mad, when you could be using Linux..."

#

Re:Great article!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:11 AM
Hmmm, yeah, with closed source programs one can never know... I never had any corrupt download, though.

Regarding compliance, the guys at Opera endured many, many problems *because* they were excessively standards compliant (even more than Mozilla); recently, though, they became more flexible so as to better render IE-orientated pages.

This version 7 works ok for me.

#

DX

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 11:34 AM
Only thing keeping me on Windows -- DirectX -- I've played the free linux games, and they are fun and all - but until someone makes it so I can play any DirectX tied game (um... like all of these lazy game programmers who can't do OpenGL to save their lives)

And No I won't pay a monthly fee to play my Windows Games in Linux WTF is that about? Buy the game then pay a monthly fee for some SW to play them?? (Dual boot or pay<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... hmmmm<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...).

Only thing I see keeping me from a true linux only PC - I want to pick up any Windows Game off the shelf and run it native in my Linux box.

#

Re:DX

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 03:24 PM
Try http://www.transgaming.com

They are working a DirectX modified Wine.

They are subscription based but they do seem to make reasonable progress.

Steve

#

Re:DX

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 09:00 PM
check out tuxgames.com. They're you can buy real games that work for linux.

Also, you can play quake3, unreal tournament, ut2k3, temrinus, nwn, and soon savage (when it's released next month) from the windows cd. Just downloaded the installer off their website.

#

Re:DX

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:33 AM
Where is this installer? i'm switching to Mandrake 9.1 and want to still play ut, q3, and some of my other win cd games on linux.

#

Re:DX

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 06:58 PM
http://www.tuxgames.com
among others sells (q3) games. See the epicgames.com web site for the ut-series.
nwn.bioware.com for nwn etc...

#

Re:DX

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 01:36 AM
...like all of these lazy game programmers who can't do OpenGL to save their lives


Lazy for not being able to do OpenGL? If anything I would call a programmer that CAN do OpenGL lazy considering how hideous the DirectX API is. Quoting John Carmack from memory "It's almost as if they chose the worst possible interface for everything" (that quote is not correct, but close).

#

Monthly fee to play

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 29, 2003 03:18 AM
The www.transgaming.com (WineX) monthly fee to play isn't what it seems-- you don't have to keep paying to keep playing, only to get new versions continuously. But, you can pay as little as $15 (three months' subscription) if the current version supports your choice of games, then unsubscribe after three months, and be happy running the games you have.

#

MrProject and dia

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 01:19 PM
MrProject is easy to use and will do what most people meed. Has a nice XML data format, so you could easily imagine separating out various views of the data on an XML-aware intranet server. Only downside I found is that project data almost alwys requires collaboration, and there is no real interoperbility with windows users.

As for dia verus visio, a few years back I bought visio pro to illustrate some database schema. Turns out visio simply could not manage the relationships I wanted to show - it could show table-table linkages, but could not show which was the primary key and which was the foreign key it referenced. Tried dia, it worked perfectly and I've neved looked back. I use the visio box as a bookend.

#

just think about it

Posted by: f00duvoodu on July 11, 2003 04:40 PM
anyone who flamed anything about linux comming along...look at it and think what year it started...then look at m$ and when they started....fundamentally linux is well ahead of where it should be...and the same goes for alot of the apps...at this present rate of development linux will be so far superior to windows that it will be unavoidable as choice..and that is the future if linux doesnt take over before then...and no it will not be to long...and if you want an idea of what is possible...look how far linux has come since its creation in 1991 then think about how far its come in the year 2003 thats 12 years....now lets look at microsoft hmmm..well their first os came out in 1980(how long development was i do not know which means who knows when) which is 23 years of os development almost double of linux...but if you want to count when they started with windows well that would be 1985(once again development length is not known just production date) which is 18 years...and if you want to start with the windows version most people think of when they early windows its probably 3.0 which came out in 1989, 2 years before linux started.....and with all those comparisons which i could give more of time difference and how far has linux come how does it scale to windows...

    well some would say better and if you get looking at the stats linux does out perform in alot of areas.....supremely user friendly for newbies as windows? some might say no linux isnt(but then again windows is looked at as the way it is supposed to be for a pc user friendly os.. so this is not necassarily true its just different than windows) and as for apps...well microsoft has been around since(im using when its company name was registered not when bill and paul got together and paul messed with computers and bill messed with people's heads and yes im serious about since bill has been talking computers all he has said is we need to get rid of piracy, and in all these years he has gone nowhere with it he must be serious about it then now back to the subject) 1976 so obviously they have been around long enough to get more apps for them.. Which it wouldnt matter if things where not locked into windows only...but anyways the main point....microsoft twice as old as linux and linux is smokin it technically(look at its growth rate). withen another 12 years linux will be unavoidable if it doesnt already make up the market. It will be so vastly superior that windows will become a joke and thats if it is still around to see another 12 years....

    linux is the future and it is unavoidable unless the entire community stops working on it now and that is the truth..... and any company should be aware of not getting locked into microsoft now because they are destroying themselves...

thats all i have to say........ sorry about my crappy sentence and paragraph structure, i really need to start using better structure wouldnt you say..;)


 

#

Fast user switching...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 04:51 PM
Have you tried using ssh to the local machine? In my experience ssh's X should solve all your problems.
I does leave access to your own windows around though, which might not be good. This *does* work on a network.

ssh is also good for running GUI apps on multiple machines on the same desktop, for example I have used xpbsmon on a sun desktop running on the front node of a linux cluster.

#

Re:Fast user switching...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 10:14 PM
An even funner use of ssh is by tunneling x2x through it to unify the desktops of two different machines. It even shares the clipboard and selection. (I've connected my desktop and secondary desktop together in that way) As far as I know it's impossible to do this in windows. (although you can connect a linux machine and a windows machine together with x2vnc, although I doubt you can tunnel that through ssh)

#

Solitaire ???

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 06:41 PM
HELP!
Where in the world can we find a GOOD Linux version of Solitare (the plain old simple one that is found on every Windows box)?

I can't move 100% to Linux because I can't run the simple old Solitaire! Does WINE do it? If MS owns Solitaire then I can copy it to LINUX as I own Lots of old copies of Windows (and thus own the rights to the copy of Solitaire that is running on each copy)????

Any Suggestions - as I know that I AM NOT ALONE with this desire!

#

Re:Solitaire ???

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 10:16 PM
Fear not my friend, the KDE patience has rules for the draw three cards version of solitaire that's so popular on windows. Aside from the fact that it reduces redundant card moves by doing them for you it behaves identically. And it's prettier to boot.

#

Re:Solitaire ???

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 11:23 PM
Looks like somebody needs to be introduced to Pysol... Google it, i think "Klondike" is the game type you're looking for.

#

AisleRiot is what you're after

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 04:39 AM
AisleRiot is what you're after - most Linux distros will install it if you select their "Games" option (I know Red Hat does for sure). It defaults to the "Klondike" style of patience, but has a massive number of variants you can play. Graphics are very nice (way, way, way better than Windows Solitaire, which I surprised how graphically crude it is, even on XP).

FYI, the RPM package containing AisleRiot is called "gnome-games" in many distros and the binary is usually just called "sol" (and you'll find it under the "Games" menu in Red Hat of course if you've installed the RPM).

#

Re:Solitaire ???

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 11:11 PM
And if you want the king of all Solitaires/Patience<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you must find yourself a copy of (loki's) Eric's Ultimate Solitaire.
I cannot imagine anyone complaining about lack of features on that puppy.
Enjoy !

Xandros. Simple. Powerful. Linux !

#

Linux just isn't there yet...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:09 PM
Anyone old enough to remember the OS/2 wars? If not, google it, and you should get some background. The last presidential election should also be a good example. Al Gore standing at the podiums during his campaign trail, toward the end of the race, when he could be heard shouting out key words that resonate with voters, for the sound bites for the news cameras, with one memorable phrase, "clean coal". Now we can't even get hypocrites to agree to windmills on Long Island in the ocean.

Back to OS/2 wars. What is microsoft's number one enemy? They said it themselves. Linux. Now go back to OS/2 wars history. What were the tactics used back then?

Any wonder that we are seeing the phrase..."Linux just isn't there yet"?

For the younger folk and the uninformed, make no mistake. What the OS/2 wars were all about, were paid microsoft employees who monitored bulletin boards and web sites, and were PAID to trash OS/2. Are you understanding this?

Just as the mail bomber dude living in the woods was nailed by his writing, it's not so hard to spot a concerted effort to keep repeating key words and phrases, to get a message implanted in the minds of consumers and business. "Linux just isn't there yet".

There shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind that employees of microsoft are monitoring this site, slashdot, and most or all of the tech news sites, blogs, and any other site where tech, business, or government news comes out, and especially where comments can be posted. And the shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind that employees of microsoft are posting comments to these sites in concerted effort, with key words and phrases, such as "Linux just isn't there yet", mixed into their own personal experiences with computers, and remastered to achieve the goal of getting there key words and phrases across. If you don't believe this, you are a fool, and are one of the sheep of the world.

Let's get more specific with the article. I'll continue this in the next comment so it doesn't get cut off.

#

Re:Linux just isn't there yet...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 10:26 PM
I agree. I crank up my BS detector as soon as I come across either of the words "choice" (as in "freedom to choose") or "inovate". MS's relentless promotion of those (and other) terms through formal and informal chanels as all but robbed them of their orignal meaning. And you're right, "Linux just isn't there yet" is popping up more and more.

keep watching the skies!

#

Try OTHER distros as well

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:11 PM
Don't believe the never ending hype that Red Hat is the only way to go. You should also try KDE on a non-Red Hat system for comparison.

Mandrake and SuSE are very strong, and more suited to desktop distros as they do more out of the box - multimedia support is far stronger in particular.

And please ignore folks screaming that Mandrake is only good for newbies - 9.1 is a solid, easy to install distro for everyone - I also use SuSE, Debian (Knoppix hd install), Red Hat, but Mandrake is my preferred choice for day to day work.

No distro is perfect, and to be quite honest the differences between them are becoming less noticable with each release, but please don't assume Red Hat is best simply because they're the biggest in the US.

#

Re:Try OTHER distros as well

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 02:24 AM
Absolutely correct!! If you think about it, you realize that, assuming they are including the same versions, they all use the same software! They may add some piece of software they've written specifically for the distribution, or add a package that another doesn't. They may tweak the UI so it fits their idea of what it should look like. But the majority of the underlying software is BASICALLY ALL THE SAME!

#

Re:Try OTHER distros as well

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:39 PM
Couldn't agree more.

Also, take a look at some of the less well known distributions, or ones focussed for a particular purpose. I use Xandros on all my desktops. I can build a desktop machine and have it productive in about 10 minutes. My main desktop machine is worked hard every day, and just looking at the uptime it says 52 days. I've never had that with Windows.

For servers I like Mandrake, but also try other distributions periodically.

#

Re:Try OTHER distros as well

Posted by: f00duvoodu on July 13, 2003 11:44 AM
what...what are you all talking about redhat is the only way to go...thats all that matters is redhat.....you guys are obviously trying to mess with peoples minds because anybody knows redhat is the only distro at all..any other distro is really spyware....

(if anyone takes these comments seriously please reavuluate your intelligence...its a joke)

#

suggestions to complete the blanks

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 08:56 PM
Redhat doesnt come with anything thats not 100% open source. So youll have to download things like mp3 codecs, realplayer, quicktime etc etc.

I use suse 8.2, although I do like redhat.

Yes you can get realplayer for linux..... just go to the same place you get the windows one. and download it.

As for quicktime, Try the quicktime plugins for xine. it seems to work for me.

I use LimeWire for getting music etc. Its a java based gnutella client. And you can use it under windows as well.

#

Linux just isn't there yet...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 10:12 PM
OpenOffice.org when first installed is a pig. It's a hack that was rushed together originally as the Star Office base, from a word processor they bought, Star Writer iirc.

How many people on this list, or does the article writer know, that OpenOffice.org can and should be optimized for faster speed? Get rid of the splash screen saves a bit of start up time. Have the ram to spare? Have at least 256 MB? If you use OOo often, use the quick starter, whatever it's called. It preloads part of OOo into ram. This speeds up start up. I don't use it, don't need it.

Another optimization is to give more memory to OOo. Go into the menus. I don't have OOo on the box I'm writing this response from, so I can't check it, but is should be Edit-->Options or Tools-->Options. Then -->Memory. Increase the amount of memory for OOo. If you have a lot of memory, and don't run too many concurrent applications, increase it substantially. And if you don't need as many undo levels, decrease this setting. And there's another setting which I can't remember right now, which has to do with number of minutes pages/changes are held in memory before being paged out. Try decreasing this one a bit.

The memory optimization should give a substantial boost to startup and general performance. IIRC, the memory optimization tips were listed right here on newsforge, as another article, and one reader's comments gave the info on how to get rid of the splash screen (one of the files contains the image, I believe you simply delete the image, or comment out/cut the bit of instruction that loads the image iirc).

Let's take it a bit further. I'll just quote Larry Ellison as saying that "all of Oracle runs on Linux", and that IBM is betting it's future by running just about everything now, and everything in the future, on Linux. For personal and small business, there shouldn't be any doubt that as a server, linux, and gnu/linux, are the combination that is the new marker that others will be measured by, in terms of performance, in terms of stability, and in terms of uptime. Anyone doubting this should check netcraft's site, and check the many and growing stories of business' experience in increased stability, performance and uptime. And an increase in the number of servers that individual techs are in charge of maintaining, and slower hardware upgrade cycle, leading to a lower tco by any reasonable investigation.

As for security, is it even necessary to mention this? Just look at ie. Are windows users aware that the ssl implementation on ie was broken for MONTHS? You know what ssl is right? That's what encrypts your passwords and credit card numbers when transmitting sensitive information with the browser. When the little padlock (does ie still have this?) is locked. Except it wasn't really locked. For MONTHS.

Bitten by a virus lately? Ever? Anyone at home? Anyone at your company? How fast does your computer run with the virus software running?

Let's do a comparison that more people can relate to. How much does windows cost? The most thrown about figure that I have seen is $50 for oem, built into the cost of a new computer. That's for win xp HOME. And from $100 to $200 if purchased separately, where you get the disk with the actual operating system on it, rather than an update or recovery disk. Except this isn't what ms wants to sell you. For one thing, you don't get the same default file system that businesses get with xp home.

And from the sales ad I'm looking at in the catalog right now...which is showing both windows xp home (at upgrade $99.99, full version $199.99), and windows xp professional (at upgrade $189.99, full version $279.99)...the ad says "Windows Media Player" "Windows Messenger" "Windows Movie Maker" "Digital Photography with Windows XP Professional" "These Features are included with Windows XP Professional" "ACT NOW!"

So what is this ad telling me? It's telling me that if I own a digital camera (anyone seen the growth rate figures of digital camera use?), I won't be able to use XP Home. And I possibly won't be using any of the other above applications, because why wouldn't the ad say that the above applications are also included in XP Home? Are they? Aren't they?

Let's leave the push to xp pro on the side for now (which is a minimum cost of $100 more option upgrade on a new computer, or $200 upgrade separately, or $300 for full version. Per computer. Did I mention that before? Per computer. Let's leave all that on the side for now.

How much is Photoshop? $700? If you are a graphic arts designer, you buy Photoshop. Or your company buys it for you. Does your company also buy one for your home computer? Have more than one computer at home? Yes? So are you stealing a second copy, or are you paying $1,400 to Adobe?

You aren't a graphic artist? I've seen what others who are competent in gimp, especially with a wacom tablet attached, can do. If you aren't a graphic artist, gimp should meet your every need. If not, you either aren't being honest, or should stick with windows->photoshop, as you will be much happier in that environment, justifying to yourself over and over, why ms and photoshop are so much better than linux and gimp. Let's face it. Even companies such as Red Hat are aware that if something is priced higher, it is perceived to be better simply because it costs more. This is a perception that among even the smartest business people, can't be shaken easily.

Let's continue. Windows desktop users have to pay for anti-virus software. And it slows down there computers when running. I've seen it. And experienced it. GNU/Linux desktop users don't have to pay for anti-virus software. This is a non-issue in the FOSS community. This only becomes an issue when desktop users who are running windows on their desktops are present in a mixed lan. And since we are talking about desktops really here, that is the windows users' problems. So what's the annual cost for anti-virus software? Per computer, or are you stealing this for additional computers as well?

I have a file/print server in my home lan. With a few users, like most households today, how much does this cost from microsoft? A license for an xp server and a handful of desktops? It's not costing me anything, except the original distro (paid for a few to try out early on, now using debian so the cost is bandwidth, which is a fixed dsl line, so the cost is really $0.)

The article mentioned project software. Something that I could never afford under windows. It has to be in the $500 or more range, from what I remember. I've used Mr. Project about three months ago for my project, and it worked great. And will be better as it develops.

Visio, never had a need for it. How much does it cost? From people I've spoken with, they haven't had any problems using dia instead. How much does Visio cost again? Is that per computer, or do they let you copy it to as many computers as you like? How much do the upgrades cost?

GNU/Linux (I'll just use suse, as it's shorter than mandrake, and isn't musically crippled on purpose for businesses like the business oriented red hat is, and suse is less likely to enrage some people than GNU/Linux), so suse has IM applications, and windows has at least one. Suse has multiple mail clients, and windows has at least one crippled one (ok, not crippled, just not as many features as the more expensive version). suse has photo viewers, many of them, windows has at least one. suse has movie viewers (including real player), windows has at least one, all of which will soon have digital restrictions management built in. suse has multiple mp3/other format music applications, windows will soon have one with digital restricitions management built in. suse has video editors (and soon/already will have very powerful ones, as code changes at ILM and other movie development houses release code back to the community), and windows has one or more which must have digital restrictions management built in, or it will defeat the drm controlling attempts. And with window giving away their software to the manufacturers/content producers, anyone doubt that ms will effectively kill off the windows competition?

suse has OOo. And Star Office is either available with various distros of sue, or is available as an option. And it has koffice. And others. How much does ms office cost? $500? per computer, or do they allow you to copy to as many computers as you want? Or do you steal it? How much do the upgrades cost? You could of course download OOo for windows, but then that destroys your anti-linux argument, right?

windows has notepad. Any others? suse has vim, gvim, emacs, kate, nedit, Text Editor, X Editor, X Emacs, Jed, Joe, Pico, Gedit, jEdit, nedit, Xjed, xvi, yudit, and others.

windows has cd burning software. It's own, with digital restrictions management built in, or enabled with update patches. windows also has third party cd burning software which generally isn't free, and will eventually be squeezed out due to the lack of the same digital restrictions management software.

windows has acrobat reader. suse has acrobat reader, ps/pdf viewer, gv, and a number of other pdf viewers. Has ms office enabled easy creation of pdf's yet? Yes? then you need ms office for this ability. How much, again does this cost? Or of course, you could download OOo for windows, but that throws out the argument again, doesn't it? suse has OOo, ps2pdf, and other tools that convert postscript, html, and other files to pdf. Or creates pdf natively.

Palm pilot? Mine died. But I know others who sync their palm pilots on suse. windows, you add software, and can do the same. Or you can buy a windows ce powered one, and do the same, which is not possible yet, from what I know, using suse. You can sync (and use, and program) the linux powered pdas however. And get a running linux system on these units that you can look at the source code and hack if you so desire. Do the windows ce powered units have this ability? See <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10390" TITLE="theinquirer.net">for yourselves</a theinquirer.net>. So windows ce devices are disposable, linux pdas are hackable and upgradeable.

windows xp includes<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...no mail servers. suse includes sendmail, postfix, exim, cyrus-imap, squirrelmail, and others. How much does an exchange server cost per year for a handful of users? OK, so you don't run your own mail server. I will be shortly. Better control over spam when you can give an email address to Home Depot as homedepot@yourdomain.com, to better bust them when they give it to others. Or to change your own email addresses periodically to evade the spam. Or for whatever other reason you want.

Let's move on to mail clients. windows has outlook, which comes with $Office$, or outlook express. Is eudora still out there? microsoft gave a really good kneecapping to novell, so novell doesn't have much of a presence any more, but it's not available on windows anyway...so windows has outlook, and maybe eudora lite. suse has (ready for this?) kmail, pine, coolmain, xfmail, mozilla mail, evolution, tkmail, xmail, balsa, mutt, and others. Evolution and kmail come the closest.

Let's get away from OOo just a second. What other word processors are available under suse? Abiword, Kword, Lyx TkTex, and someone else can explain LaTex to you.

As for Mozilla, the only time I use it is when I need to look at sites with pictures downloaded as default. Otherwise I use Konqueror, which is LIGHTENING fast, and very stable. Both Konqueror and Mozilla have tabbed browsing, better control of cookies and images (which I keep off by default), better control over java and javascript, better encryption options, better security, better security certificate handling, better configuration options, and more. btw, Mozilla got the message when they were embarassed in being passed over for consideration for the apple/firebird project. They are concentrating on trimming the fat right now. Good for them. I use it once a week or less. Konqueror is my fave. Don't like either one? How about opera, amaya, or lynx? There may be a few that I missed.

html editors? windows has Frontpage, is it $200 now?, or included in $500 office. per computer. How much are upgrades? windows also has macromedia dreamweaver, $500 or more, optimized/pushed for coldfusion. suse has all the editors mentioned above, of which vim is a favorite, along with amaya, bluefish, and my favorite, Quanta Plus (which has wysiwyg in the cvs tree), and Mozilla's wysiwyg. I've used frontpage since the beta came out to 2000, dreamweaver, and now I'm using Quanta Plus and am getting used to doing without wysiwyg, since I don't have the cvs build. Dreamweaver was the only reason I was booting into windows almost a year ago, no longer. And Quanta Plus is more w3c compliant, and doesn't destroy the code like frontpage, or add extra characters/insert non w3c code (minimal) like dreamweaver. How much do the upgrades cost for windows?

How much does WinZip cost? Or are windows users all stealing it? StuffIt is not going to be compatible anymore with WinZip right? What's ms's default compression utility? Is it compatible with the others? Don't get me started on suse. There are dozens.

pims? suse has dozens. Movie players? I missed some above. mplayer is another favorite. Games? windows dominates here. But I eventually stopped playing elaborate games on computers, and now use a computer for work, homework, productivity, communication, and video/audio enjoyment. And non-elaborate games? windows has (or had) hearts, solitaire, the mine game, and one other card game. suse has dozens and dozens. Maybe a dozen or more card games. lbreakout, a missile command clone, tron, battleship, dozens of board games, astroids, klines, glines, a flight simulator as mentioned earlier, racer (which is great), logic games, puzzle games, action games, ltris, xscorch, and dozens and dozens of others. All included or freely downloadable.

Utilities? suse has them by the hundreds. windows doesn't have nearly as many.

suse has openMosix (actually on clusterKnoppix by default, downloadable and installable on others). windows has? Don't know what openMosix is? Try running a movie, photoshop, office, dreamweaver, and burning a cd all at the same time. Actually, try all of the above, but instead of one movie, try running four movies, all at the same time. Let me know how long your uptime is, let alone your usability. On my lan, I can do all of the above without my box even breaking a sweat. And my desktop is a 1 Gig/256 MB ram box. For further info, google openMosix.

Web server? Apache. windows? theirs is free also, and has been for years. Check netcraft's site for the results of this matchup. Especially check the uptimes.

Database? windows, you have to buy office pro $600 or $700, or buy it separately, a couple hundred, to get access. But then again, if you are developing for a web site, or for a business office, no one in their right mind uses access for windows. They use SQL server. How much is that license, for a handful of users? How much for a web site? suse, you have MySQL, PostgreSQL, and others. Or Oracle on windows or suse. But if we are hearing Larry Ellison correctly, Linux is the poo going forward. After all, he did say that oracle runs completely on linux...hint...hint...

Should we talk more about development? Compilers on suse? Free. On windows?

Visual Studio costs how much on windows? Even after ms panicked after it saw its developers abandoning it in droves for FOSS, and slashed the prices dramatically?

How much do the other development tools cost on windows? On suse?

Google runs on linux...yahoo runs on linux...ms's mail servers were bsd based before they were busted...ms's web caching is done on <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10413" TITLE="theinquirer.net">linux appliances</a theinquirer.net>...the embedded devices manufacturers have formed a consortium for embedded linux, even in the face of the SCO suit...<A HREF="http://www.itworld.com/Man/2685/030710germanopensource/" TITLE="itworld.com">Europe</a itworld.com> is going linux...<A HREF="http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3057549" TITLE="reuters.com">others</a reuters.com> are <A HREF="http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/07/08/HNafrolinux_1.html" TITLE="infoworld.com">going</a infoworld.com> linux, the <A HREF="http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1190120,00.asp" TITLE="eweek.com">US Government</a eweek.com> is going Linux, the <A HREF="http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/06/11/1423244&mode=thread&tid=11" TITLE="newsforge.com">US armed forces</a newsforge.com> are going linux, <A HREF="http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/12/04/2346215&mode=thread&tid=19" TITLE="newsforge.com">Largo Florida</a newsforge.com> is using Linux on the desktop and <A HREF="http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1441239&mode=thread&tid=23" TITLE="newsforge.com">saving millions</a newsforge.com>, <A HREF="http://articles.linmagau.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=202&page=1" TITLE="linmagau.org">what</a linmagau.org> are you waiting for?

Are you a leader, or a follower?

<A HREF="http://www.linuxiso.org/" TITLE="linuxiso.org">Get Linux</a linuxiso.org>

and <A HREF="http://www.cheapbytes.com/" TITLE="cheapbytes.com">Get Linux</a cheapbytes.com>

and <A HREF="http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=44" TITLE="linuxiso.org">Get Linux</a linuxiso.org>

The last link above, is a link to Knoppix, which is a single cd which you can try out linux from. Download it (700 MB), check the md5 sum to make sure it's a good download (important for this, as I have gotten some bad disks and at least one bad download, if it doesn't boot up, try burning a different disk). You put it in your cd tray, then reboot. If your computer is set to use the cd as one of the boot devices, it will load linux. If not, use the instructions on the screen when windows boots up, to access your bios (which is usually, "hold down delete button to access bios" or something similar, if you miss it, reboot, and try again. Then get to the boot menu, usually by using the arrow keys, but follow the instructions over mine, and move the cd rom drive to the top or number one position, of where to boot from. Then save and exit. Don't make any other changes. If you make a mistake, simply exit without saving, then try again. You can leave the computer bios setting in this order, it won't affect windows. Now reboot. When you reboot, you will see messages scroll by, then you will reach the knoppix splash screen. Press F2 for help. You will be at the help screen, and on the bottom will be a blinking cursor. That's the command line. Oooooohhhhh!!! The nasty command line. You will learn to love it. Follow the directions on help. Most likely, you will need to type the following, or something similar:

knoppix lang=us

then hit enter.

Knoppix should then load the kde environment, which is one of many that you can use (windows only gives you one, so you won't know what I'm talking about right now.

It will also open konqueror, the web browser, which is also the file browser, and it will be displaying an info screen on knoppix, with relevant links.

What will you need to access the internet? Not aol. Other broadband? If you are using dhcp for a cable modem, or for your lan, it will automatically pick that up. All you will need are the ip addresses of your nameservers. What's that? It's the info when you signed up to your isp, that they gave to you. Or look at (on windows 98, newer users look at appropriate areas), my computer, network, then select one of the tabs, forget which, towards the right, that lists two nameservers. Write the numbers down. There will be two sets of ip addresses, something like 55.250.125.1xx (x's are so I don't mess anyone up), and 55.250.125.2xx You will plug these numbers into the correct menu choice, from the start menu, go to knoppix config or something like that, then select networking or something similar. I'll amend this when I'm running knoppix here. Or go to knoppix.net, or get on one of the mailing lists.

Knoppix will NOT change your windows installation, and it won't change files on your hard drive, unless you specifically make changes while running knoppix that you can't make by accident. You will however, be able to access your windows files, write letters and print them out, or save them to a special file that knoppix can, if you so choose, to save the file to your windows hard disk. Or to a floppy or other media. You can also save your configuration changes to knoppix to another file, if you so desire, and if you take the extra steps to do. So that next time, you don't have to type knoppix lang=us during startup, or re-enter your nameserver info.

If you are using a static ip setup instead of dhcp, you will need the static ip address, gateway address, and netmask numbers as well. Then set this up in the knoppix menu as described earlier.

What are you waiting for? A kick in the pants?

For the small business people out there, and the self employed, are you ceding this important savings/efficiency/reliability to your competitors? You've heard the stories. How many more do you have to hear?

Ride the wave. Don't be engulfed by it!

#

What's with the bug Roblimo?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 10:16 PM
Am I being censored because I used the word p*g? Why is the number 1 appearing instead of my comment? This has happened previously. Are my comments censored/moved off page by ip address?

What's up?

#

Re:What's with the bug Roblimo?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 04:31 AM
I think this is because your post is too long [the post is in the link below the '1', with the 'pig' word and ALL the rest...]

#

Still think a bug, or intentional, Roblimo?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 07:22 AM
still think it's a bug, or intentional moving because of language, or issues with previous posts.

Posts that are too long on slashdot, and on this sister site, have in the past listed several paragraphs, then at the bottom, include a hyperlink that says something like:

"Read the rest of this comment"

or something similar.

It looks like, that until or unless this is fixed, we'll have to cut our own comments, like I cut my original post, and continued it in another comment, to make sure that it is listed on the front page of the story where it will be read more, instead of being listed by clicking a hyperlink underneath a single digit, 1, where it will get less viewing.

If it's "pig" in the text, please so state. If not, and it's a bug, let's get it fixed please. If it's to save space, the older method, with a hyperlink that says click here to read more, after listing several paragraphs, is much better, and should be reinstated.

#

Fried monitor? Nope

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 10:37 PM
Before you clame the wrong settong will fry your monitor try it and see what actually happends.
Nothing. Well absolutly nothing to be exact. It won't break your monitor it just won't work.
I've done it a lot and it's never broken anything.
Windows dose not always get those numbers right and scare you with (your monitor might explode) warnings. No fud here but a valid legal disclamer. Technicly your monitor could burn out... unless it's UL approved. If not.... I've had to put out one fire and it wasn't connected to the computer at the time.
(Testing used VGA monitors)
This was more of an issue back on the Commodore 128. You used a stock RGB or RGBI monitor. The c128 could push the signal and you could get better quality that way but watch out most RBG monotors blow out when you do that. Even Commodores own RGBI monitor had it's limits and can be damaged in this way.
I used the Zenith brand RGBI/Composit monitor. In is last years of life it became a hacked VGA.
It wouldn't blow.

#

Re:Fried monitor? Nope

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:21 AM
This actually referrs to the OLD monitors that didn't cap the frequency sent to the flyback transformer. If it was out of spec (too high) the transformer had a tendency to generate LARGE back EMF impulses.

When this built up enough there could be internal arcing that destroyed the monitor

#

Re:Fried monitor? Nope

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:56 AM
Been there, done that, have the fried monitor. It happened with a RH distribution, 6 or 7 I think. In this case I took a working computer home, sans monitor, and started it up with a different monitor. Thar she blew. The recent RH and SuSE distributions seem pretty good at detecting monitors, but I haven't tried swapping monitors yet. I'll certainly be more careful in the future.

#

Adobe Acrobat Reader available for Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 12:36 AM
Get it from Guru Labs, those guys rock.

They have a slick RPM that works perfectly on install unlike the Adobe.com, labor-intensive, no mention of LANG issues, manual shell install.

<A HREF="http://www.gurulabs.com/downloads.html" TITLE="gurulabs.com">Guru Labs's Adobe Acrobat RPM</a gurulabs.com>

#

GPS Software and maps

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 05:16 AM
The free linux software for working with GPS cards and maps is woefully inadequate, when compared to commercial apps available for Windows.

Hopefuilly this will improve. I'd like to get my Zaurus doing something more than telling how fast I'm walking across the yard - using the deluo gps cf card.

Charge for the software! I don't care if it's reasonably priced and performs well. Getting this free stuff working is a pain in the butt.

#

Re:GPS Software and maps

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 08:08 AM
There are no commercial GPS Linux solutions because you aren't a profitable enough niche for a corporation to exploit yet. Aren't you tired of dealing with that crap yet? Have you considered donating your time/money/suggestions to one of the many open source GPS projects?

Bitching about the work people did in their spare time and let you have for free probably isn't the most helpful course of action.

#

Re:GPS Software and maps

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 10:06 AM
"you aren't a profitable enough niche for a corporation to exploit yet"

"Bitching about the work people did in their spare time and let you have for free probably isn't the most helpful course of action"

"Have you considered donating your time/money/suggestions"

Wow! How anal. Do you work for MS? Are you paid to troll? or.. are you really this misguided?

#

Re:GPS Software and maps

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 10:18 PM
I saw a commercial bit of software working with GPS at a recent UK Linux show. I'm afraid I can't recall the name...

#

Re:GPS Software and maps

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 24, 2003 10:07 PM
well, guess what...
Free maps are not available on the market, we need to build them
Now, if you want nice gps software, here's a start for you :

<A HREF="http://sxpert.esitcom.org/projects/navsys" TITLE="esitcom.org">
http://sxpert.esitcom.org/projects/navsys</a esitcom.org>

#

bittorrent

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 11:48 AM
I noticed in your article you said

" Investigating, but it looks like BitTorrent or Kazaalite running through WinE (Windows Emulator for Linux)"

Since it is written in python there is a version of bittorrent which doesn't even need wine. In Redhat like distros it is a bit time-consuming to set up (you have to install wxGTK etc). But it works fine.

I think you should look into the bittorrent experimental client. It allows you to limit your upload bandwidth so all of it isn't consumed and you can't surf the net (google for it)

#

Re:bittorrent

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 17, 2003 04:15 PM
There are also Gnutella (gtk-gnutella) and EDonkey (mldonkey) clients available for Linux, both of which offer a built in search (unlike bittorrent) and probably work better for short files. Imho, where Bittorrent shines is on the 20+ mb files--Linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.isos, videos, etc.

#

Thanks for a great article

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 08:05 PM
One of, if not the best, article for the Linux community in a long time.

Very professionally communicated.

Thanks!

#

There is much more to linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 09:53 PM
People who try to simulate their win32 environment
in liunx are missing the point. Linux offers new
ways to approach problems that wouldn't be feasible in Win32. Many time-consuming repetitive tasks can easily be automated using linux tools. Tasks such as simple email and writing often go faster using "console" or "text" apps than WSIWG apps, but Win32 support for console apps has caused people to avoid them. It is easy to add extra boxes (lots of decent systems discarded by
Win32 users are cheaply available) to run tasks that would bog down a user's main workstation.

#

Re:There is much more to linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 31, 2003 12:49 AM
i have only one gripe when it comes to this comment. you see it attached to every windows user's journey to linux. they are not switching to linux to learn a new operationg system, they are switching to try something new, or to see what all the fuss is about. they are used to running windows applications and using thier computer a certain way. DEs like KDE or GNOME or IceBox allow for a certain comfort while someone still needs their hand led while "switching". they might not even let go of that hand. people do NOT want to change their work-habbits (or what they are used to) merely for a system change. using a "console" app to a windows user is regression back to the days of dos -- no matter how unture that statement is, it's how it is.

you, my friend, are missing the point. linux is not just about using you machine more efficiently. linux is about choice -- in this case, like when using redhat, it's a CHOICE to not be bound to a propriatory OS you have to be worried about security holes making your internet connection shutting your system off in 60 seconds.

so while your posting this comment (i'm sure you're using lynx to do that) about how people should DRASTICALLY change the way they work -- just becuase they choose not to be bound to microsoft any longer -- a few people looking for freedom will continue workng they way we always have.

#

The Microsoft Guy

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 12:38 AM
When I saw this headline I thought of Jim Carrey showing up at the receptionist's desk with his tools. "Microsoft Guy" he calls out cheerfully and is waved in. Trouble is, he never leaves, and soon his face morphs into... Steve Balmer...

#

switching users

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 12:52 AM
I believe there is nothing stopping you from running another instance of gdm on another virtual term say 8, then you can login as another user and switch between them usinf ctrl-alt-8 and ctrl-alt-7. This will be resource hungry though, better have lost of memory.

#

MP3, LMule and Quicktime on Red Hat

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 01:50 AM
If you use XMMS on Red Hat you go to the following URL and downlaod the MP3 plugin for it. It's in rpm format for easy installation.

http://www.gurulabs.com/downloads.html

You can run LMule for file sharing under Linux. It has a really nice interface. Here is the link to it: http://freshmeat.net/projects/lmule/

To run Quicktime on Red Hat you can resort to CrossOver. The link is http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover/
To run QuickTime natively you can try QuickTime 4 Linux. The link is: http://heroinewarrior.com/quicktime.php3

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Image slide show

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 10:19 AM
The slide show feature is in KDE = Kuickshow.

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Autocompletion in OpenOffice

Posted by: unoengborg on July 13, 2003 11:53 AM
You complained that you could not use tab for outocompletion of words in your document, but instead had to use enter. This true, but even if you can't configure to compelte on tab, you can configure it to complete on right arrow or on space.
I have set it to use space, as it feels very natural to write a space character after a word, as it is hte normal way to separate words in a text.

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Lindows

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 12:06 PM
You would have had a much friendlier time with Lindows, then since your a MCSE, you might even try the jump to Debian (Lindows with out the hand holding).

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Fast desktop switching

Posted by: unoengborg on July 13, 2003 12:13 PM
Almost the same feature as the XP fast dektop switching can be configured on Linux. The only difference is, that you can be connected to the network and that you can do desktop switches to any machine on your network, including your own.

This can be configured in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/inittab by adding an extra X server. That way the login dialogs starts automagically and there is no need for command line interaction (like your startx command) If you configure your xdm/kdm/gdm to popup a chooser dialog you can even get a list of computers that would send you a login dialog.

Here Linux really have the edge.

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AntiVirus for Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 13, 2003 08:48 PM
If you run a mailserver on Linux (or *BSD) and have a couple of MS Windows computers on your network then maybe an antivirus can be useful, if so then I'd recommend F-Prot.

http://www.f-prot.com/

It's free for personal use but if you intend to install it on your corporate network then you'll probably need a license. It comes with example scripts on how to use it as a sendmail wrapper, it also has an automatic update script that can be scheduled in a cron job.

Seriously, if you have a Linux workstation (and not a server) then an AntiVirus is just a waste of time. It's friggin boring to scan for viruses on Linux because you never find anything<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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PageMaker

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 09:54 AM
Is there a Linux replacement for PageMaker?

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Re:PageMaker

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 01:40 AM
Most of the functionality in the older versions of FrameMaker and PageMaker exist in OpenOffice... Havent worked with either for a few years, but I have done just about any sort of layout I could want with OpenOffice......
Buy the book!!!!
As a side, the drawing tools in OpenDraw create very good vector graphics - almost on par with Illustrator.......
Again, Buy the Book!!!

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Re:PageMaker

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 24, 2003 10:14 PM
yep, just came out, it's called <A HREF="http://web2.altmuehlnet.de/fschmid/about.html" TITLE="altmuehlnet.de">scribus</a altmuehlnet.de>

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Default Applications in Nautilus

Posted by: Trevor Q Leaman on July 14, 2003 05:23 PM
I couldn't find anyone responding to your question about how to associate stuff in Nautilus. I did trawl through the posts in case someone already had, so I apologise if I am repeating what someone else said.

You can do this within Nautilus by right clicking on the file you need to associate something with and choosing Open With / Other Application.

This will give you a list of Applications currently "Known". You can use this dialogue to enable / disable the known applications and choose a default. The "Modify" button allows you to modify the item you have chosen in the "Known" list.

To add a different application, click on the "Go There" button in the bottom section entitled File Types and Programs.

This will give you a dialogue box which allows you to edit the applications responsible for specific file types.

In the "Actions" section you can see a drop down called "Default Action" this is the list of the "Known" applications again. If you drop down this list there is an option on the bottom called "Custom".

Choosing Custom will enable the "Program to Run" box allowing you to either type in the name or "Browse" for your chosen application.

When you OK your changes, you will notice that you have returned to your Nautilus window, so right click the file again and choose "Open With" again. You will now see your added application.

Note that Nautilus will still open "Text" files using it's built it viewer with the option of opening in other applications via the Right Click.

I am doing this on a Red Hat 9 box running Ximian Desktop 2 Pro, which is basically Gnome2 within a "Ximian Integrated" environment. Though I'm sure Nautilus has not changed much. I, like yourself am now using GNU/Linux for everything except games on XP. (Hope that someone can help with your camera, I don't have much insight into this area because mine just plugged in and worked!)

You may have also noted a few people commenting regarding their preference to Gnome or KDE. Basically when you install Red Hat, by default it uses the Gnome environment instead of KDE. If you didn't install KDE or it's applications then you are missing out and I would suggest you take a look.

The key thing about Gnome and KDE, as with many things on GNU/Linux, is that you, like everyone else have the choice. In our offices we have both Gnome and KDE users who all have their application preferences and different reasons for choosing them. I have used KDE and Gnome in the past and chosen from many of the great applications that both have to offer. My mind is currently made on the XD2 Gnome Environment and Application Suite.

Don't be put off by a few zealots or squabblers slamming one environment in favour of the other. My suggestion to you is, try them all, be prepared to try them again in the future and never be too small minded to change your opinion.

Hope that helps and have fun,

TQ

#

Quicktime &amp; Real

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 14, 2003 06:25 PM
Crossover plugin from Codeweavers will enable you run Apple Quictime and Windows Media Player 6.3 on linux. Works quite well on my system.

Real Player for linux is available from http://forms.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html , there is a version of RealONE but it's a bit dodgy. Your better of downloading RealPlayer 8 and then installing the RealVideo 9 codec into it.

#

My Kind of Article

Posted by: HumanX on July 14, 2003 09:14 PM
Now that is how you write an article comparing windows and linux. Show the users the applications you were using and then show the free replacements.

Two thumbs up.

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all the missing points in the article are here

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 15, 2003 03:10 AM
Hi Nissan,

Here are a few suggestions to add missing items to your replacements
table:

"Browse and view files on my local machine" - "I still need to figure
out how to change the default application associated with file
extensions"
Just right-click on the file and go through the menus. I know, it's not
as intuitive as in Windows though.
Also go to the Gnome menus, Preferences / File types and programs

"View images" - "I do miss the slide show feature Windows Fax and Image
viewer offered"
Just use gThumb. It's in the panel menus, in the Graphics section.

For all multimedia apps: You could go to freshrpms.net to get nice RPM
packages tailored for Red Hat 9

You could try gxine instead of xine-ui if you like an application wich
has an interface more similar to MS Media Player (the engine is still
xine-lib)

"Play QuickTime movies" - Just download and install the Windows DLLs.
The xine mailing lists archives will provide you with the information.

"Play RealPlayer files" - Just install RealPlayer9, and you will be able
to either play the files in RealPlayer, or in xine (xine can use the
realplayer libraries once you install them). Again, xine mailinglist
archives are good.

"Play MP3s" - "IP issues with the MP3 decoder"
Just go to freshrpms.net, download and install the xmms-mp3 plugin and
XMMS will be able to play MP3 files and playlists.

"Download pictures from digital camera" - "Red Hat is not picking up my
camera when i activate it."
Ok, this is a tricky issue. I quit using gtkam myself, it doesn't work
too good for me either.
Remember, the USB driver can "see" digital cameras as SCSI devices
(yeah, they are not SCSI, but the driver will do some "magic" to fool
the system into believing they are). The camera will be mapped onto the
first available SCSI device. If there are no SCSI devices in your
system, that first available device is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/dev/sda.

Here's what i do:

1. Create the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera directory
2. Add this line to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/fstab<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/dev/sda1<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera auto noauto,user 0 0

3. Modify<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/modules.conf

On some systems you need these lines in modules.conf:

alias usb-controller usb-ohci
alias usb-interface usb-ohci

On some other systems you need these lines:

alias usb-controller usb-uhci
alias usb-interface usb-uhci

Experiment with the first version. If the step #7 below doesn't work,
try the second version. You may need to reboot after changing
modules.conf, unless you really know what you're doing (and are a bit of
a wizard in Linux drivers black magic).

3. Reboot, wait for system to come up, login with your username
4. Make sure camera is turned off. Plug your camera into the USB hole
5. Turn on your camera (if the camera has several turn-on modes, use the
one for downloading pictures onto the computer, not the one to take
pictures)
6. Right-click on the desktop and go to Disks
7. Select "Camera" or something like that

Your camera will be automagically mounted under<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera. Use your
file browser to copy the images, delete them, etc. At this moment, the
camera is just one directory mounted in your system.
I usually create a symlink from my home directory to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera, to
simplify things:

ln -s<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home/florin/Camera

When you're done, you can unplug it this way:

8. Close the file browser, or at least go to a directory different than<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera (the idea is to get out of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt/camera, or else step #9 will
fail)
9. Look on your desktop for a "camera" icon and right-click on it.
Select "unmount" or "eject" or something like that (it's at the end of
the menu list). You should see the icon disappearing from your desktop.
10. Turn off your camera
11. Unplug it from USB

Works like a charm. Should work with pretty much any USB digital camera.

"File sharing" - "Need to learn how to set up WinE"
Actually, there is a native Linux application that uses the eMule
protocol. It's called xMule and you can find it on freshrpms.net

"View PDF documents" - "Xpdf loads PDF files faster"
True, but it's not nearly as good as Adobe Acrobat. Go to gurulabs.com
and look for their "guru downloads" section. They provide RPMs with
Adobe Acrobat. They even offer a Mozilla plugin RPM, which makes Mozilla
launch acroread when accessing a PDF file.
I like xpdf too, but acroread is so much better at high-quality
rendering of documents.
Once you discover how to associate files with extensions, you can
associate acroread with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.pdf.

Some other items, not included in your table:
Playing multimedia files in the browser.
If you install gxine like i said above, it comes with a Mozilla plugin.
Just symlink it to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins and you'll be able to play
in Mozilla any file supported by your xine installation.

ln -s<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/gxine/gxineplugin.so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/

Playing Macromedia Flash
Just go to macromedia.com and download the Flash player. Unpack the
archive. Copy these two files into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins :

flashplayer.xpt
libflashplayer.so

Running Java applets:
Go to java.sun.com and download the latest Java JRE. There is a version
which comes in an RPM, packed in a shell archive. Download it and run
"sh j2re-1.4.2...." (whatever the heck it's called). This will generate
the RPM which you must install.
Then symlink the plugin to Mozilla:

ln -s<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/java/j2re1.4.2/plugin/i386/ns610-gcc32/libja<nobr>v<wbr></nobr> aplugin_oji.so<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/

Hope that helps,

#

Virus

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 16, 2003 08:12 PM
Some [rare] viruses do propagate on linux.
But there is a nice open source anti-virus called ClamAV, with full windows viruses knowledges.

#

XMLSpy for Linux??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 18, 2003 01:05 AM
what's the equivalent?

#

Filesharing application

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 24, 2003 09:59 PM
For filesharing application, you can use xmule, which is a port of emule in the windows world...
I've yet to not find something on there<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D

#

I am new but all for Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 06, 2003 02:04 AM
I mean - MS fans say what they will.
I just logged on my friends PC running Windows - and crash - crash crash.

Soon there will be a revolution - I am sure of it.
Now OK - some applications that come with RH (or other distros) are not quite there.

Dia is no way near Visio. Infact Dia is rubbish and it crashed! And there is nothing too match Photoshop, Corel Draw, Dreamweaver<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. but of course!! These software developers are NOT developing for Linux!

And all these stuff we are getting for free were done as open project by hobbyists(?) - sorry no offence meant.

But you can't possibly compare how much you get for so little price. Maybe I am a geek as many of you - but I just feel a thrill logging to Linux - always something new to learn.

Not on MS you - there you hit deadblocks all the time. Give you an example: I had to program an Outlook application VBA that manipulated the MS Chart Control OCX. Nightmare because it kept doing weird things - kept crashing. Now supposed it was a linux open source thing - we could step through the original C/C++ code and figure out how to automate it from the outside. But no documentation existed on MSChart OCX (or we just couldnt find it)

OpenOffice - is not very nice - so i might get StarOffice. Word looks very pretty but it is still very annoying (and dangerous! there is a new exploit which means one could develop VB app to open a back door in a company)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. (embarrasingly dangerous! Word documents often keep deleted things inside it which later can be undeleted/retrieved)

IE crashes - so stuff that!
Many thing under windows crashes - including Netscape<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. so we have to reboot.

I am not that keen on Mozilla, but I find the skins kind of nice. The rendering can be quite ugly (but then again that is justified {according to someone} that is because people dont code to standards but IE)

GAIM is crap - lol.
I mean no comparing with MSN Messenger 6.0
But I can see people like the idea of bringing all messengers in one. But its not that slick. The interface needs a revamp.

Having said that - two things<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. one Linux's apps is not being developed by the big company and to be fair - some apps are still quite impressive. And the second thing - Linux is speeding up to win desktop users, maybe in a couple of years?

I just hate M$ - like a curse<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. for all the lost files and nights after nights reinstalling the OS.

I was going to give up computers (more specifically programming) for good - Linux made me change my mind and brought wonder to computing again.

#

file sharing progs

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 08, 2003 10:55 AM
a better alterative to kazaa for both linux and windows as well as mac is overnet/endonkey which can be found at <A HREF="http://www.overnet.com/" TITLE="overnet.com">http://www.overnet.com</a overnet.com> btw if you are firewalled, ie have a firewall or have a router that doesnt support oppening port ranges get overnet.
theres isnt much difference between the two the bigest however is that you can use overnet even if you are firewalled you cant use edonkey if you are.
edonkey can be found at <A HREF="http://www.edonkey2000.com/" TITLE="edonkey2000.com">http://www.edonkey2000.com</a edonkey2000.com>

#

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