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Wal-Mart shipping PCs with Lindows pre-installed

By on June 14, 2002 (8:00:00 AM)

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- by Tina Gasperson -
In a move that appears to be a coup for Michael Robertson et al, Wal-Mart's online store is offering eight different Microtel PCs with LindowsOS included. The computers sell for USD$299 to $599 and ship in one to seven days.
NewsForge originally reviewed Wal-Mart's OS-less PCs, a dramatic move away from the standard Windows-based home computer. Now the retailer is advertising systems with the LindowsOS distribution pre-installed, no longer just moving away from Windows, but now directly competing with it:

"These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows."

To say that Lindows runs most Microsoft programs is a bit of a stretch. Wal-Mart says the PCs come with "mail, word processor, web browser, address book, calculator, cd player, MP3 player, Microsoft PowerPoint viewer, Word viewer, and Excel viewer," and buyers get to select three "free" Click-N-Run applications from the Lindows.com warehouse (of GPLed KDE-based software, we might add.)

No need to be concerned about the PCI 56k modems that come with the Microtel systems -- according to this NewsForge report, Microtel is shipping Linux-compatible modems in these systems.

For a really cheap setup, get the $299 system, add a USD$49 HP printer (most of HPs printers work with Linux) and a 15" Microtel monitor for USD$119. And if you're especially Wal-Mart loyal, you can even add a subscription to the company's ISP service, called Wal-Mart Connect, for USD$9.94 a month.

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on Wal-Mart shipping PCs with Lindows pre-installed

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IP over flying pig is starting to sound good.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 09:37 PM
First Mozilla, now this. While it is only walmart.com, it's still a step forward.

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ummm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 10:07 PM
This will be an interesting opportunity to finally see if Michael Robertson was serious or if he (as most believe, myself included) is just blowing smoke.

I wonder why Walmart chose this distro, which has no wide-spread use, instead of a distro like Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSE, which do have widespread use.

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Re:ummm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 10:18 PM
After that fiasco at mp3.com over illegal copies of CD's (I *never* approved of that so-called "beam-it" or "my-cd" concept, when he has such a good community going for him--couldn't he have just waited awhile for it to grow into something really cool?) I would not spend a penny on his ventures.

I wonder: where will people play who are interested in free music now, because of that mess? Vivendi seems to be pushing the mp3.com community and supporters into buying "regular" commercial so-called-music....

Similarly, what will happen to Linux because of such a goof-off? If this "people's Linux" or "comsumer Linux" flops, how long is it going to take for us to scrape off the egg?

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Re: MP3.com Beam-It

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:37 AM
That wasn't entirely Michael Robertson's fault. The company's lawyers told the company that the Beam-It plan would pass legal muster under Fair-Use...

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Re: MP3.com Beam-It

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 03:00 AM
...sort of "foot in the door???" "Squeak by the guards?"

Laws also have a "spirit" as well as a "letter." Not that I believe the publishing firms haven't violated the "spirit" of the Constitution by extending copyright to such a ridiculous term.

My big issue with him was that he managed to get those goons on his ass at a time when there was a new musical culture *growing* on his service. Instead of taking the hard way, and encouraging that culture to become significant and maybe even profitable, he had to find a way to "squeeze in" material that didn't really belong to him, by making it look like it belonged to the users.

So he basically wound up putting all those free-thinking artists "on the block" for Universal to snag. Did he think about those people when he was fiddling with his lawyers?

I won't be done with my grudge until I am assured that free-spirited musical communities can flourish on the Internet. That's what I *thought* he was trying to do, and if I'm right, then he let us down.

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Re: MP3.com Beam-It (where to get free music)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 03:25 AM
I'm not sure if it fits your criteria of a "free-spirited musical community" but I always found http://www.peoplesound.com as the best free music page (its as in free beer mostly).

used to contribute to http://www.garageband.com don't know if they are still there or not, but they where good enough for me.

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Re:ummm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:01 PM
I think the answer to that is kind of obvious. These are built for either the completely novice computer user or a Windows hardened novice computer user. These are not professional machines or even inexpensive "geek" machines, but simply cheap computers for entry level users.

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Internet dedicated machine

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:15 AM
It can be an internet dedicated machine; separaterd from a small internal network: pretty virus proof and where i can do some secretary work ( open office ). Small box, no license; more security.

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Re:Internet dedicated machine

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 03:05 AM
...pretty virus proof ... more security.

The big problem here is that by default, Lindows users run as root!!! It's simpler for people who only know MSFT...

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Re:ummm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:13 AM
The reason they went with Lindows over another Linux distro is because Lindows comes pre-compiled with the stuff that makes it MS-Windows compatible, and the GUI *looks* just like Windows. RedHat, Mandrake, etc. don't ship with that sort of look & feel, and you have to manually add-in WINE, CrossOver Office or whatever.

Wal-Mart here is targeting a new and growing market segment -- 2nd-PC homes. The first PC and replacment PC market is pretty much filled at this point, people are comfortable enough with computers that they see a need to get a 2nd one, but they don't necessiarly want to shell out another $1000-$2000 to duplicate what they already have. They just want something for the kids to play on/e-mail/websurf, but they don't want any ol piece of junk that is slower or could cause problems. Wal-Mart is pretty much the only vendor who could deliver these systems in a large enough quantity and at a price that will pretty much sell instantly. They'll have this market EASILY cornered.

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Re:ummm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:49 AM
I suspect it was a pricing issue (as it is with most Walmart vendors); they could have gone with Lycoris/LX as well, it's targeting the same userbase as Lindows and also uses a KDE-based desktop.

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Re:ummm

Posted by: emk on June 15, 2002 02:43 AM
"....I wonder why Walmart chose this distro, which has no wide-spread use, instead of a distro like Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSE, which do have widespread use."


What we consider "widespread use" of Linux probably doesn't even show up on Walmart's radar. Remember they are probably introducing Linux to the people they are selling these PCs to. The existing desktop Linux userbase is so small that Walmart probably would not bother going after it. So they can pick any distro that meets their customers needs i.e Windows like and capable of email, websurfing and basic wordprocessing.


emk

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Re:ummm --- widespread ??? And that might be ...

Posted by: noshellswill on June 15, 2002 01:32 PM
... who ? Widespread use ?? Of the Linux desktop ??? What use? The sum-total of Linux desktop use is 0.025% of all computer users ... and most of that is looky-loo ... that's loo not Lou, and till ya get lots a' Lous ya don't have a market - and bless their dark-little-souls Walmart knows about MARKETS.

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Re:ummm --- widespread ??? And that might be ...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:23 PM
i am sure theirs more linux users than 0.025%.
I was a dedicated windows fan untill 3 years ago.
I first installed suse 6.2 it lasted 2 weeks then windows was put back on mainly cos of hardware probs and games. But when windows was back on i could feel the slowness of windows and lack of control, so time and again i kept installing-uninstalling linux this was mainly cos their wasnt a distro that supported all my hardware. In the end i gave up windows for suse 7.2. The point is once a windows user uses linux theyll bitch and moan about it and re-install windows, but once thy've tried it they'll keep comming back for more untill they understand whats going on in the unix enviroment.

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Re:ummm --- widespread ??? And that might be ...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:35 PM
.025%?
Lessee here.... The entire German government just went linux, the US defense department just went linux, linux is the dominant OS in asia....

I think your numbers are a bit low. Oh hell, more than a bit, you're WAY off base!

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Re:ummm --- widespread ??? And that might be ...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 04:52 PM
> linux is the dominant OS in asia....

What Asia is that? I live in Japan and the push is Windows 100%.

I'll be in China next week. I'm curious to see i I run across this Red Flag Linux I've heard talk of.

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This is going to change the desktop.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:46 PM
At $299 for a well spec'ed machine, this is going to sell bucketloads. Who wants MS Office on a home PC anyway when StarOffice/OpenOffice will do exactly the same for one twentieth of the price? Games? - well there is the Direct X extension to WINE.

Once these machines start selling, the dam has burst, porting Windows applications and games to WINE is easy - if codeweavers can do this for MS Office binaries with nothing but hinderence from Microsoft, think how easy this will be for the app/games writers who have the source code and the incentive.

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Re:ummm -- ease

Posted by: Skia on June 18, 2002 01:56 AM
I believe a major factor was likely the desire to avoid the update agony of RPM based updating. See the article Is RPM Doomed?
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-06 -17-005-26-OP-SW

and then compare that with the ease of the Lindows Click-N-Run:
http://www.lindows.com/products_clicknrun_whatis.p hp

The mass market is not a geek market. If you were trying to sell to a large, new market of Linux newbies, which route would you choose?

(Eazel was also headed in the direction of easing support and maintenance over the net. If they had survived, they might also have been a contender.)

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Re:ummm

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 25, 2002 11:21 AM
well....I am not sure...but Linux currently comprises a LOT more than the idiotic %0.025% of desktops that some folks think.

  Yipes...wake up and smell the roses folks...Linux is more useful, 1000 times more powerful and incredibly easy to install.

  I sell Linux distributions on the web and have sold more than 1000 of them on my teeny, tiny website in the last year.

  Truth be know...most "geeks" are windows users like me who dual boot...:-)

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Why this is important.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 10:14 PM
.. this is important, not because of Lindows, but because these machines are guaranteed to work with Lindows. Meaning, that for $299 you can now get a pre-built machine that you _know_ will work fully with your distro of choice, be it Lindows, Mandrake, SuSE, etc..


Throw openoffice on these things, and for under $3k, you can have 10 full-fledged office computers running.


Simply amazing. I hope schools take notice.

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Re:Why this is important.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:02 PM
This is incredible! When my grandma's HP dies, I'm making SURE she gets one of these. This is absolutely insane. Pigs are flying:

Mozilla

Neverwinter Nights

Now this....

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Re:Why this is important.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:05 AM
Yes. Help spreding Linux viruses, give your grandma root.

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Why not?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 09:02 AM
I gave your mom my root last night

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7 Dayss, Yeah Right

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 10:24 PM
Don't believe the 7 days thing... it's false advertising.

I cancelled an order from them after 3 weeks passed with no shipment. They ignored 2 emails (I guess they only have the email address for show). Finally I called and they told me the factory was backordered.

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Re:7 Dayss, Yeah Right

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 07:44 AM
Finally I called and they told me the factory was backordered

They probably are. Woohoo! Go Linux! :-)

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Re:7 Dayss, Yeah Right

Posted by: jrtanis on June 18, 2002 03:46 AM
Well really, what can you expect. Companies do get back ordered. I would figure 1 to 7 days would only hold true when the computers are in stock. Which when you think of it, is actually a pretty slow guarantee (heck, I get annoyed at waiting 2 days for a company to just ship a package). This is a good deal, and the first of its kind (that I know of) in such a mass quantity with an extremely popular national retailer.. I wouldn't be surprised if the computers were on back order in most areas for quite some time.

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Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:16 PM
This is a great step forward...too bad it happens to be WalMart, whom I wouldn't give one dollar of my hard-earned money to EVER.

Forget the well-known music/book censorship--that's just kid's stuff. Think about the fact they refuse to stock emergency contraceptives for women (as well as misopristol, the so-called 'abortion drug') in their in-store pharmacies. In many places, WalMart is the only place for low-income women to get such products.

Think about their viciously anti-competitive business practices (think MS is bad?). Their goal is not to fairly compete with local retailers--it is to obliterate them (*all* of them) by any means necessary.

Think about their virus-like invasion of small-town communities, buying off the local politicians and landowners--then leveling everything for their vast parking lots and shopping centers. The prototypical American homogenization.

Yes, Linux is good. WalMart is worse.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:33 PM
I couldn't have said it better. Wal*Mart is a parasite preying on local businesses. I do hope this venture is successful though, because if these machines make a strong enough dent in the ethos of the general populace, Lindows and Linux will also start to be understood. This in turn will eventually come back around to the Wal*Marts of the world and wreak havoc on their centralization of power. The people *will* bite the hand that feeds them.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:19 AM
why are you so bitter

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 11:45 PM
why are you so brief?

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:04 AM
Hey, cool your jets comrad. Your PMS will soon be over for another month.

FYI, WalMart is vicously COMPETITIVE. That's why they offer a wide variety of good quality, low cost goods. Something MSoft doesn't now offer and, on the other end, something really hard for Mom and Pop stores to offer. It's the free market. Adapt or die. WalMart has lots of competitors. How about Target and ShopKo and many others?

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: maxomai on June 15, 2002 01:01 AM

FYI, WalMart is vicously COMPETITIVE. That's why they offer a wide variety of good quality, low cost goods.


Speaking as a former Wal-Mart customer, I can vouch for the low cost part; but calling their offerings "good quality" is the most whimsical of fantasy. I've also seen first hand what these guys do to small towns, and it ain't pretty. First they close down all the small ma and pa shops, then they leave. Aside from the fact that they leave a bunch of people broke, it also means you have to drive thirty minutes just to get milk and bread. Not cool.


These days, I purchase all my goods from locally owned businesses and (because I'm in the computer business) certain web sites. This ensures that those businesses and sites will be there in the future, and that I might have work if things get bad again. That's how enlightened self-interest works.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:22 AM
Your PMS will soon be over for another month.

So you're throwing misogyny into the mix too, huh? I feel sorry for your hate and ignorance.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:00 AM
whoa... chill out. talk about hate and ignorance... I bet you're angry a lot :)

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:10 AM
Awww, poor you, did walmart not allow you to kill your baby?

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:12 AM
Most of the time the malice of people posting online does not surprise me. However, your post has the unique honor of being one of the most malicious I ever read. It makes me wonder what your Lord and Loved Ones must think.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:57 AM
I wonder what the lord thinks of child killers.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:07 AM
I know this is news to you, but not everyone agrees on just what *is* a child. A fertilized egg is not a child by most people's definition. You have to live in a world where your opinion is in the minority, so deal with it. Your rights are protected, but you have no business to mess with other people's rights.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:29 AM
Mess with people's right to kill? How do you define life? Wow, it's ok to kill babies but not copy CD's! What kind of fscked up world is this? I'm sorry I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a woman may have the legal right to kill her unborn child but that does not make it "right".

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 09:54 AM
I wonder what the lord thinks of the zillions unhealthy, spineless, religious, mass consuming Americans who go apeshit over wal-mart. If there is a lord, The Lord is a child killer. The Lord also let my pet rabbits starve to death when I was ten. To the defenders of Wal-Mart, you reek of cheap useless crap. Hail craftsmanship, Hail LINUX, Hail Satan.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:29 AM

Why does everyone assume that people who are pro-life are dumb, ignorant religious people?


My sister is pro-life, she is neither dumb, or religious; she just thinks the logic behind the whole pro-choice ideology is wacko.


Just because you only see people who are a little loopy on TV who are pro-life doesn't mean that everyone is that way. Or are we not capable of seeing humans on the other side of the debate?


Now, I AM a Baptist Pastor; and pro-life, and I humbly ask the people dropping the "baby killer" posts with "Lord" attached to them to stop. I won't tell you to hate what is evil, most people think they understand that. I will tell you to love what is good. And trolling on message boards is not good.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:36 AM
Given that the original poster was talking about a morning after pill, the use of the term "baby" is highly subjective. I wouldn't expect you to understand that as you are clearly incapable of independent thought.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:14 AM
"Given that the original poster was talking about a morning after pill, the use of the term "baby" is highly subjective. I wouldn't expect you to understand that as you are clearly incapable of independent thought."

Perhaps if your mother had thought that way the world would be a better place today. The next time you consider killing a baby take a look at the children around you, if you still have a clear conscience perhaps you should abort yourself instead.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:50 PM
So every time a woman has a period and every time a man masturbates, they're each "killing" potential children?

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You people in this thread are being ridiculous!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 23, 2002 07:17 AM
If you were just talking about the ``abortion pill'', then that would be one thing. I don't have anything to add to the debate about whether or not abortion is a bad thing.



However, emergency contraception is an entirely different matter. Emergency contraception DOES NOT impair implantation! The ONLY thing it does is prevent ovulation, exactly like the normal birth control pill. It just stops UNfertilized eggs from coming in contact with sperm.



Did you all hear me? I'll say it again: it prevents eggs from becoming fertilized. That's it.



If you've already ovulated, and your egg HAS become fertilized, EC will have aboslutely no effect on it whatsoever. NONE. The egg will implant in the uterus (assuming there are no unrelated problems) and you will have a normal pregnancy.



Emergency contraception is INCAPABLE of harming a fertilized egg!

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:14 AM
Thats Exactly why i shop at walmart. Way to go Wally Linux and No Killing babies what a cool combo.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 23, 2002 07:23 AM
Hey, guess what? By refusing to carry emergency contraception, they might just BE killing babies!



After all, emergency contraception IS NOT an abortion! All it does is prevent ovulation, the exact same way regular birth control drugs work. It only affects UNfertilized eggs.



I'll make this extra clear for you! If a woman who already HAS ovulated and her egg has become fertilized, emergency contraception is INCAPABLE of harming the fertilized egg!



So if someone is denied emergency contraception and they become pregnant, they might decide to have an actual abortion. Since you're against abortion, one would think you would love emergency contraception! Maybe you should learn a little more about these things.



After all, ignorance kills.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:20 AM
Not to mention the Walton family's contributions to the KKK and other white supremacist groups, totalling many millions of dollaars over the years.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 06:30 AM
Kind of _ i r o n i c _ considering their customer base is comprised mainly of low-wage minorities who are the target of KKK and racist aggression.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:26 AM
Forget the well-known music/book censorship--that's just kid's stuff. Think about the fact they refuse to stock emergency contraceptives for women (as well as misopristol, the so-called 'abortion drug') in their in-store pharmacies. In many places, WalMart is the only place for low-income women to get such products.
First, it's not censorship. The government isn't prohibiting them from carrying any books or music. They have every right to decide what they want to sell or not. On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?

Think about their viciously anti-competitive business practices (think MS is bad?). Their goal is not to fairly compete with local retailers--it is to obliterate them (*all* of them) by any means necessary.
Think about their virus-like invasion of small-town communities, buying off the local politicians and landowners--then leveling everything for their vast parking lots and shopping centers.
On these points I somewhat agree with you. If they didn't bully there way into many towns, convincing local governments to use eminent domain and such legal but unethical (IMNSHO) methods, I wouldn't have a problem. It's too bad mom and pop couldn't compete with Wal-Mart and had to close down their shop, but there's no right to stay in business.They'll just have to find another way to compete, i.e. better service, find a niche, etc.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:08 AM
"On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?"

They are needed in case when latex breaks.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: maxomai on June 15, 2002 01:35 AM

First, it's not censorship. The government isn't prohibiting them from carrying any books or music. They have every right to decide what they want to sell or not.


I agree that they have a right to sell what they do or do not want, but let's not kid ourselves: by deciding not to carry product because of message (instead of market demand), they are engaging in censorship. Just because it's not government-mandated doesn't make it any less so.


On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?


People get pregnant even with the best contraception (e.g., tubal ligation). This is an ultimate backup. You might not like it, but the arguments for access to emergency contraception are exactly like the arguments for concealed carry. It's an ultimate last resort. Denying either makes an assumption that the person denied can't take responsibility for himself or herself.


I'm not saying that Wal-Mart should be forced to carry these drugs; they are, after all, a private enterprise. On the other hand, if they're not willing to provide these drugs, then someone else (such as a competitor, or Planned Parenthood) has to step in.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:10 AM
by deciding not to carry product because of message (instead of market demand), they are engaging in censorship.
It's not censorship, because anyone can go down the street to another record store, or go online and order what Wal-Mart doesn't sell.

I'm not saying that Wal-Mart should be forced to carry these drugs; they are, after all, a private enterprise. On the other hand, if they're not willing to provide these drugs, then someone else (such as a competitor, or Planned Parenthood) has to step in.
Nobody has to step in. Personally, I believe these so-called emergency contraceptives are on shaky ground. If the sperm has already fertilized the egg, it is a living human being, and should not be aborted unless the life of the mother is danger. If the conception hasn't taken place yet, and this merely prevents it from happening, that would be acceptable to me. However, how can one know whether or not it's happened? Therefore, I believe these pills should be banned.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: maxomai on June 15, 2002 02:21 AM

It's not censorship, because anyone can go down the street to another record store, or go online and order what Wal-Mart doesn't sell.


Let's assume that this is a good defense against a censorship charge (and I don't believe that it is): you're assuming that there's another store to go to, or that the customer has Internet access. This doesn't hold for a lot of towns where Wal-Mart dominates.


Personally, I believe these so-called emergency contraceptives are on shaky ground.


I'm not going to get into the abortion debate, except to say that I vigorously disagree with your entire line of reasoning.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 07:19 AM
I'm no lawyer but where is that law that demands that private enterprises must sell all books if they sell any books at all. Freedom implies the ability to choose. Judging from your comments on the abortion pill I would think you would agree with this. Calling this kind of discretion over your own product line censorship is highly inflamitory and insulting rhetoric at best. If you are trying to buy muslim literature a Christian book store is probably not your best bet and vice-versa. This is not odd un-American or evil this is living in a free and open society where you can choose to start a busines and sell whatever the market will buy for whatever they are willing to pay for it. (for the record - I don't like the heavy handed stuff that Wal-Mart does either but censorship is the point I take issue with)
As for life the only thing added to a baby after conception is time+safety+food. Legal right and moral right have absolutely nothing to do with each other on this planet anyone with a TV should have gathered that by now. O.J. was legally acquited but if that was justice I will eat my keyboard.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:17 AM
The ultimate last resort is to not do it at all. Anyone that believes otherwise is an irresponsible fool. Anyone that aborts an egg after fertilization is a child killer.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:57 AM
Repeat after me, 1,2,4,16,64 cells do not make a human. No brain, no body, no nothing. It is as much a human as much as a hair or a dozen of spermatozoids.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:59 AM
I feel sorry for your parents.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 03:21 AM
The only problem with your thinking process is -Only the One Who Makes a Product can say when the product began, or is finished. That's called Authorship.

I am a writer. My novels begin when I have an idea. The novel is finished when the story is completed. I am also a computer programmer. Have you studied the intricacies of DNA? What marvelous programming. I can wait to meet the Programmer. Do you know the mysteries of life? Life is beautiful, because life is...

Walmart's decision is benefitting the open source community. Lindows may not be Red Hat, but it is a good start. Although a very enjoyable debate, the rest of this has no Logical Connection to the subject. -Katriel Bat-Emet

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 12:20 PM
Then at what point does it become a human being? 128 cells? 256? 2^10? 2^20? Some arbitrary time period like the first trimester?

The only definitive, discrete point in its development is conception. Before, the sperm and egg cells are distinctly of the parents, and cannot develop into a baby. After, it's a matter of time and nourishment until it's born, unless an abortion or miscarriage end the pregnancy prematurely.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:47 AM
Consider that in the first few months of pregnancy there isn't much difference between a fetus and most animals in their birth stage. Calling the fetus an unborn child, however it is (the fetus has a potential to be born and become a child) it is like calling a person an undead corpse. People have just as much potential to become corpses as fetuses have to become children.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: fitzix on June 15, 2002 11:06 PM
Actually, people have a significantly greater chance of becoming corpses than a fetus does of becoming a human.

Largely because anything alive has a 100% chance of dying at some point in the future, and fetuses have no guarantee of ever developing at all.

Abortion did not invent miscarriage or birth defect: "God" did. Go talk to "him". :)

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 12:31 PM
Consider that in the first few months of pregnancy there isn't much difference between a fetus and most animals in their birth stage.
That is not true! It's a fraud that was propagated by Ernst Haeckel in 1874. His work has been almost completely discredited by modern evolutionary biologists. See <A HREF="http://zygote.swarthmore.edu/evo5.html">this page</a swarthmore.edu> for more info. It's outrageous that this is still in many elementary and high school science textbooks.

People have just as much potential to become corpses as fetuses have to become children.
Your argument makes no logical sense. People have a 100% chance of becoming corpses. So using your logic: fetuses have a 100% of being born?

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:55 AM
> It's too bad mom and pop couldn't compete with Wal-Mart and had to close down their shop, but there's no right to stay in business.

No local business, of any kind, can ever compete with a large national chain that does loss-leader pricing at new locations, financed by the rest of the chain, for as many months/years as it takes to completely kill all locally competing businesses.

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Re:Too bad it's WalMart

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:04 AM
No local business, of any kind, can ever compete with a large national chain that does loss-leader pricing at new locations, financed by the rest of the chain, for as many months/years as it takes to completely kill all locally competing businesses.
They can't compete on price, but there are other ways to compete:
  • Better, more personalized service
  • Specialized expertise
  • Niche markets
  • Handcrafted, local wares
  • etc.

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  • Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 06:18 AM
    That's correct. In fact, mom and pop can now go to walmart and buy the computer for thier business for ~$450 (w/monitor & printer).

    This important. I don't like walmart (or any big chain) for what they do to homoginize local communities. Strength is in diversity. But the only way for the little guy to compete with the big guy is to leverage networks and computers.

    We now have what has been a private resource of big business: computers and global networks. It's time to start using them so mom and pop can combine their strengths and do the leveraged buys/sells that these large companies have been able to do for about 15-20 years. This is why they are ahead of us.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 12:07 PM
    That's the most incoherent, BS filled post I/ve seen in a long time.
    Strength is in diversity.
    This is utterly untrue, but repeated often. It's not true in reference to business, economics, populations, or anywhere.

    But the only way for the little guy to compete with the big guy is to leverage networks and computers.
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, trying to be funny, or just plain stupid. Leveraging computer technology is how Wal-Mart became the behemoth it is today. They run a very lean, efficient business, especially in regards to their supply chain. Their competitors (K-Mart, etc.) couldn't match them, but many are now using the same techniques to try to catch up.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:19 AM
    Last I checked, this was called C-a-p-i-t-a-l-i-s-m. The "large national chain" known as Wal-mart didn't just appear one day with all it's stores in place. Never know, one of those "mom and pop" stores could one day grow into a large national chain and become your next arch-enemy.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 23, 2002 07:30 AM

    On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?



    Hey, I've got an idea. How about people know what they're talking about before they say things like this?



    You have to use emergency contraception before you get pregnant, or else it doesn't work! EC works by preventing ovulation. It has absolutely no effect on implantation, and is INCAPABLE of affecting a fertilized egg!



    This is why it's called the ``morning after pill'' instead of the month after pill. It's intended to be used within 72 hours of intercourse, to prevent an UNFERTILIZED egg from being released. For instance, if you are responsibly using condoms as contraception and the condom happens to break.



    At that point, the responsible contraceptive user goes out and responsibly uses emergency contraception to make up for the accident, and PREVENT (not abort!) a very irresponsible accidental pregnancy.

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    Emergency Contraceptives

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:25 AM
    You know what? I am glad they don't stock Emergency Contraceptives. If you get yourself in a position where you need one, you are not being responsible.

    O.k., o.k. what about a rape? Well guess what -- go to the Doctor... You should anyway after a rape.

    And the abortion drug should be banned.

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    Re:Emergency Contraceptives

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:05 AM
    Absolutely, Women who murder children should be charged as the murderers they are.

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    The baby is the one to blame. KILL IT SOON!!!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:17 PM
    So the baby is the one to blame fot the rape... KILL IT SOON!!!

    Please, please, please, think what you say

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    Re:The baby is the one to blame. KILL IT SOON!!!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:24 PM
    Some pretty sick people out there huh? Lets take your irresponsibility out on your unborn child. Wait, it's not a baby yet.. *PROVE IT*

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    Re:Emergency Contraceptives

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 23, 2002 07:34 AM
    You're not being responsible by using emergency contraceptives? That is by far the most moronic statement I have EVER heard!



    Emergency contraceptives are meant to be used if you ARE using another type of contraceptive, such as a condom, and there is an accident, such as the condom breaking. If you were doing everything properly and RESPONSIBLY, there is still a chance of such a thing happening.



    At which point, being that you are such a responsible person, you do the responsible thing -- use an emergency contraceptive. You thereby prevent ovulation, the same way regular birth control works. A pregnancy is PREVENTED. Very responsible!



    And being that you're against abortion, wouldn't you say preventing abortions is a good thing? Then WHY ON EARTH are you against emergency contraceptives?

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:38 AM
    Take people who are bigots, allow them them cheat others to get rich, and the cycle repeats itself...perhaps this could be called the "bigotry cycle." NOT NICE!

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:39 AM
    Umm, they can sell whatever the hell they please. If you want to sell that stuff, you sell it. Jeez, start your own damn company instead of complaining and FORCING others to do your bidding (yes, you are the kind that goes out and 'votes'... grow up please).

    Oh, get a job too. Instead of sitting in that little college room talking about how bad wealth creation is, dammit. And no, Walmart does not go around forcing you to buy their products/services. If you don't want them go buy from somewhere else or start your own damn company.

    What planet are you from again?

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:52 AM
    Has anyone who thinks Wal*Mart is an evil company every actually worked at one? I did for 5 years during High School and Collage and here are my thoughts?

    You can tell a lot about a company by how they treat their employees and Wal*Mart does a better job than their compitetion and that is why they are the best in the business. Most fulltime employees mad ~$18,000 + Benifits + Bonuses back in 1991. Now this is not a ton of money, but if you have little job experience or live in a small towns it is.

    They mandate that any "local" supplier that has a product similar to one that is already carried must be stocked. I know several small town manufaturing plants that own their business to WAL*MART.

    They are a very competive company and I would not want to try to compete with them becuase they are super effecient and well run, but that does not make them evil.

    I also disagree with their policy on tapes and books and several other alterations they make, however, they do this despite the fact that it probably hurts their sales. That is called having a belief and sticking to it. Even if I disagree with them, they still have a lot of integerity for sticking.

    For every small town they become they "kill", they help 10 other towns grow. Ask any economist what is the best indicator of a robust econmy and he will tell you that the quality of living is the best indicator of how well a country is doing. The funny thing about this QOL is that is is almost entirely influenced by one factor, effiency of the economy. Effiency gains are driven by compitition in a free market and therefore free markets are the strongest in the world. I would put forth that Walmart is the most efficient company on the planet and is probably more responsible for the groth in the 90s than any other single company.

    Now when Walmart starts using the fact that they are the dominate player to raise prices....then we will talk evil, but until then, WAL*MART is renown for razer-thin margins.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:11 AM
    Yes, you *can* tell a lot about a company by how they treat their employees.

    WalMart has among the worst labor policies in America: Low wages, little benefits, pervasive illegal union-busting, etc.

    WalMart does everything it can to *avoid* hiring full time employees (er, I mean, 'associates'). Why? Because it is cheaper to run a business with a part-time workforce: no benefits, no vacation time, no raises. There's also little threat of workers organizing for their collective benefit: turnover is high, morale is bad, job security is so low that there seems to be little point in organizing (you won't be there very long, anyway). And, as an added benefit, they can greatly inflate the number of jobs they claim to have created when it comes time to negotiate the next round of corporate welfare (er, I mean, "tax breaks") with the local cronies in town hall.

    And they treat their 'associates' wonderfully, too. It is strictly _forbidden_ to talk to coworkers on company time at all, unless it is about the task immediately at hand. They call it (somewhat Orwellianly) "time theft". You can (and will be) fired on the spot for it if you are caught.

    The most sickening thing of all is their super-saccharine marketing campaigns attempting to convince people (apparently successfully) that it's oh-so-much-fun to work there ("If I didn't work here, I'd be here anyway!" says the sweet old man in the blue vest).

    WalMart is the face of the new American sweatshop. Unless you are one of the priviledged with a quality education (which requires, of course, money), this is the future you can look forward to.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:05 AM
    Sweatshops? Umm...no. That's a pretty ridiculous comparison. You have fat, happy workers with benefits who could run out and find a job elsewhere without the faintest possibility of starving.

    Suppose we forced WalMart to pay all their workers double wages and let them goof off on company time. Gee golly, I do believe prices would go up. *Your* prices. *You'd* be the one subsidizing the comfortable lifestyle of the college dropouts and the people without a work ethic.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:47 AM

    Too bad your "Collage" didn't teach spelling.

    Let me help:

    competition
    razor
    renowned (grammer, not spelling)
    efficiency (would have blown this one off as a typo, but you did it three times)
    integrity (integerity - the characteristic of being like a positive or negative whole number?)
    manufacturing
    benefits
    Yes, and finally: college!

    Otherwise, great points. I think the only valid point that the original poster has is that Wal*Mart is like a bad house guest. They come uninvited, ignore you or bully you when you try to turn them away at the door, then settle in for a long stay. Sometimes, they do end up being a positive thing for small towns, but sometimes they don't. The point, though, is that Wal*Mart doesn't leave when communities try to turn them away, so their community inevitably becomes dependent on Wal*Mart. If Wal*Mart fails or pulls out of town, the small networks of businesses and product distribution in the area no longer exist. Not to mention the fact that now quite a few of their citizens are newly unemployed and still just as unskilled and useless to a small community as ever. So, is Wal*Mart evil? Maybe not. But are they rude, self-serving and possibly destructive? Yes.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:54 AM
    What's "grammer"? Thanks.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 09:54 AM
    I think he was referring to Kelsey Grammer, of Cheers and Frasier fame.

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    Re: Too bad Walmart IS evil ...

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 10:48 AM
    ... cause 13% of the folks in that high QOL township are living Walmart fat ... and the other 87% are without living-wage jobs. THAT's an economists idea of paradise --- 87% of people do not agree and will eventually tear-down that fat-living Walmartized paradise.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 07:57 AM
    This is a great step forward...

    I agree!

    ...too bad it happens to be WalMart, whom I wouldn't give one dollar of my hard-earned money to EVER

    I'm sorry -- that dollar would go further than it might other places.

    Forget the well-known music/book censorship...

    Um...no. For something to be censorship, you have to actually suppress the thing, not just refuse to sell it. For example, I refuse to spread Scientology dogma, but that doesn't mean I'm censoring Scientology.

    Think about the fact that they refuse to stock emergency contraceptives for women

    Yes. So? Apple once ripped out an easter egg from the MacOS where the smiling startup face would wink at you, because it was offensive in some cultures. It doesn't mean that they care one way or the other about producing social change. They just found that too many people were upset by this sort of thing, and as any good company should, they served their customers' desires as best they could. WalMart isn't the KKK or the Lutheran church or anything of the sort. They don't care one way or the other.

    In many places, WalMart is the only place for low-income women to get such products

    Oh, come *on*. That's ludicrous. WalMart is not cutting off any source of any drug, period. This is the 21st century United States -- if you want to get a drug and can't get it at point A, you *can* get it at point B.

    Think about their viciously anti-competitive business practices

    There's one crucial difference between the two wildly successful businesses. WalMart didn't get wealthy by selling crummy products at insane prices. Yes, they play tough, but the consumer doesn't get horribly screwed in the process.

    Yes, Linux is good. WalMart is worse.

    If they manage to pull this off, I'm going to be enjoying it. WalMart is immensely powerful and has a lot of consumer pull. They could run MS right over.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:03 PM

    And you can't get porn there either. Not even Bonus packs with 3 Four year old issues of Fox and Cheri for $7.99, let alone DVD porn. Where else is a small town stud to go to get porn when they are the only store around. Do they think that just because they own the store, they have a right to chose what they want to sell? How dare them.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 18, 2002 02:35 AM
    Wow, I didn't know WalMart was so picky about what they sell in their pharmacies.

    Mmmm. In spite of my bad experience working at a new Walmart in 1989, maybe I should shop there more often, especially if they are going to sell Lindows.

    I prefer Redhat, but maybe Linux might just become a household word from all this fuss. Sometimes bad publicity is

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 18, 2002 02:37 AM
    Sometimes bad publicity makes better marketing.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: jrtanis on June 18, 2002 04:03 AM
    Yes and no its a two-way street. These are really ethical issues and are irrelevant in this context. Here at Clemson, there is still plenty of anti-WalMart paraphenalia lying around (and WalMart was stopped), but it is exactly those Wal-Mart business practices that you hate that made this possible. No small store, or even large retailer, would want to constantly offer a $300 box. I hate censorship and dislike "emergency contraceptives." I think you may need to look up the definition of contraceptive as the definition abortion does fit more closely then contraception to most of the drugs I've researched.. but like I said.. thats irrelevant to this discussian. It's a commercial economy, either play the game or don't.

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    Re:Too bad it's WalMart

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 18, 2002 05:49 AM
    Thank you for adding that! I know about wal mart's practices as well and not enough others do.

    Mike

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    Microtel info

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:29 PM
    Anybody know where to find information about Microtel? Who are they? Where are they? Can they be taken seriously?

    It is interesting to note that Lindows does not even mention this deal on their website. This uncharacteristic of them.

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    Re:Microtel info

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:09 AM
    A $299usd Computer from Walmart, and your asking if they can be taken seriously? Well of course, I mean I'd bet the farm on the quaility of components, assembly, and customer service. I also have a metal plate in my head, and piss my pants whenever I'm within 100ft of a microwave is in use.

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    ISP service

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:39 PM
    Wal-mart ISP service says their service is compatible
    only with Win/xx OSes. So how can you expect this to work with Lindows? The ISP installation CD works only with windows OSes.

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    Re:ISP service

    Posted by: tina on June 14, 2002 11:58 PM
    Oh, but this is Lindows! And Lindows will run "most Microsoft" software.

    Tina

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    Re:ISP service

    Posted by: RickySilk on June 15, 2002 12:00 AM
    Well if it's standard PPP you don't need wal-mart's software, just the settings.

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    Re:ISP service

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:58 AM
    it is isn't standard PPP. From what I remember reading on one of the CDs they were handing out, it is either compuserve or aol (really the same thing now). I'm leaning towards compuserve though, because of the cheaper than aol's standard price.

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    Re:ISP service

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 08:53 AM
    The standard one Wal-Mart service is basically CompuServe 2000 using the CompuServe 6 (IE based) version of the AOL client connection infrastructure. That client is not compatible with Linux. I don't know if it is with WINE.

    CompuServe also offers a service called CompuServe Classic and that supports standard enough PPP to be readily usable on Linux. No word yet on whether it will be offered at a deal price with these machines or not.

    CompuServe definitely isn't the same as AOL, though the network connection part is. The content on the service is from CompuServe and shared with Netscape.com as well as Wal-Mart, all from the AOL Web Properties Group rather than AOL itself.

    On the open source friendly side, CompuServe recently released COmpuServe 7, which uses the Gecko browser engine. Not really a surprise from a company in the same group as Netscape...

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    Lindows has AOL

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 06:12 AM
    I remember seeing on Lindow's website that they would have AOL support, so I bet that's what it is.

    It's even Click'n'Run!!! Are you excited yet??

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    Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:48 PM
    Oh, crap. With so many well-established distributions to choose from, Wal-mart picks a relative newcomer -- Lindows -- which is the only distribution that promotes the use of Microsoft software.

    Given that Lindows touts their ability to run Microsoft software as their main advantage, I have suspected them of being secretly backed by Microsoft. I note the fact that this ability only sprang up once we no longer needed it -- when it would, in fact, hurt Linux.

    The reason we no longer need the ability to run Microsoft software, is due to the arrival of StarOffice 6.0 and OpenOffice. But Microsoft would like to prevent the growth of OO/SO6, and would much rather have us using MS Office, even if we end up running it on Linux.

    These days, Microsoft's biggest lock-in comes not from Windows, but, rather, from MS Office and Outlook. It is extremely important to Microsoft to keep people using Office and Outlook for the next while, because Microsoft is currently working on tying both into .Net, thus creating widespread use of Microsoft secret protocols over the Internet.

    Another thing that made me suspicious was Microsoft's lawsuit against Lindows. Microsoft rarely sues anybody, not to mention the fact that Lindows was a minor start-up distribution that was likely to go nowhere. By suing, however, Microsoft gave Lindows a big boost in publicity, not to mention a reputation as a Microsoft killer, when Microsoft lost the case (as Microsoft's lawyers knew, from the beginning, was inevitable).

    Now some may dismiss this theory as paranoid, but you have to look at Microsoft's history. Microsoft pretended to embrace OS/2, but it was just a ploy to sidetrack IBM and WordPerfect. Microsoft pretended to embrace the use of Windows APIs on Unix, but, as the Bristol court case showed, it was just a con, designed to hook Unix applications into Windows servers. And Microsoft pretended to embrace Java, but it was just a fraud intended, in Microsoft's words, to "turn Java into just the latest, best way to write Windows applications."

    Thus, for Microsoft to secretly promote a Linux distribution, centered around the running of Microsoft software, with the purpose of getting/keeping people hooked on MS Office products, is well within the realm of possibility.

    But, whether you believe me or not, our immediate goals, as Linux users, should be the same:

    1. Use, and promote, native Linux applications, whenever possible.

    2, Stay away from all Microsoft products, including operating systems, applications, and Internet protocols.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:36 AM
    I smell a conspiracy theorist! Cool your jets dude. Your theory is 110% wrong. If you really think Microsoft would go through the trouble of purposfully suing a competitor to GIVE them publicity you are very wrong. Lindows wants users to use Open Office and Star Office, but if they WANT they can still use the Microsoft Office. Maybe you should read an article on the lawsuit, and browse Lindows.com and gain some more logical sense about you.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:53 AM
    any YOU fellow anonymous person, completely missed the point of his conspiracy theory (which may have some merit)

    microsoft MIGHT be sly enough to promote an 'alternative' OS that will keep people running the rest of its software. they may loe $99 on an OS install but a few hundre$$ for office and some other apps.. it might just be worth it to them.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:46 AM
    if you believe that, you are a fool. Microsoft has risked their own trade mark. learn before you speak

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:32 AM
    What I don't understand is why do you have to use the "fool" word when is not necessary. Let's keep ourselfs "democratics" :-)

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:09 AM
    Microsoft had no idea that they were risking their own trade mark. That twist in the case (another smart judge) caught them completely by suprise.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:30 AM
    You all miss the point completely. LindowsOS is not at all affiliated nor associated with Microsoft in any way, shape or form. We only got Office applications like Office 2000 suite to work with Lindows so that users would not have to drop all of their existing applications. LindowsOS is not at all about running Microsoft applications. LindowsOS is about bringing choice to the masses. The main point behind LindowsOS is the <A HREF="http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categories.php">Warehouse.</a lindows.com> This is where the value in Lindows comes from. By purchasing the OS, you get access to thousands of applications for free. Applications such as Open Office, Star Office, Evolution, etc. Instead of the traditional installation of Linux apps which requires: download source, open command line, untar, make, make install, etc. Even an RPM format file requires you to go out to the internet and search for it. LindowsOs has put all the applications in one place. Microsoft has put itself in the situation of possibly losing the trademark on the word 'Windows' due to the suit with Lindows.com. If you think Microsoft is behind them, do you think Microsoft would risk their trademark for some tom foolery? Not a chance.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 09:50 PM
    But this is where Lindows hasn't done something new. Lindows is a Debian-based operating system. Lindows has simply made a pretty way of downloading and installing apps for your computer using the tool "apt". In Debian (and it's offspring like Corel/Xandros (yuck), Storm (miss you!), Libranet (the BEST!!!) and now Linodws), you can simply type "apt-get install evolution" and you get it installed. Lindows has done NOTHING SPECIAL here. They've contributed NOTHING to the development of apt. They simply made a pretty GUI frontend to "apt"... which there are many already.
    So why someone would subscribe to Lindow's "service" to be able to download all these great apps for "free" (which they are already for crying out loud!) is stupid.
    Lindows has only adapted a Debian OS to make installing MS products easier. The "Click-n-Run" crap is just that... crap. You click "Click-n-Run" and is runs "apt-get install packagename" in the background.
    This, my friends, is nothing new.
    What a bunch a BS.
    CP

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:39 AM
    People will buy these boxed for two reasons:

    1: They're on a budget and not so savvy. They saved ~$100 by forgoing Microsoft Windows. How likely are they to shell out ~$300 for office when that's more than 1/2 of what they paid for the whole system? They'll try the free office, and they'll probably be quite happy with it. The price (free) will go a long way towards that end.

    2: They intended to reformat and install pirated copies of 'doze, office, outlook, etc.

    I like a good conspiracy theory, but there just isn't one here.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:59 AM
    So if I build a computer mysefl i'm automatcly a pirate too?

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 09:44 AM
    according to recent reports, yes.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:52 AM
    Why do you feel that users of Linux must hate microsoft?

    Remember that on a Slashdot poll about your favorite OS, it was not OpenOffice, or StarOffice that won, but rather MICROSOFT OFFICE!

    Stop trying to brand all Linux users as Microsoft haters

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:01 AM
    Down with Microsoft....let LINDOWS RULE!!!! The future is beginning....LINDOWS, LINDOWS, LINDOWS!!!!

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:01 AM
    How stupid are Slashdotters now?

    All three of those are office suites, and last I checked OS stood for operating system.

    Besides, when you added together all the free office suites and CowboyNeal, it beat Microsoft Office. Diversity is good.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Gary Edwards on June 15, 2002 02:28 AM
    Dead on right. Having been through the MS grinder more than a few times as both a developer and user, I would agree with Anonymous that this smells of more Microsoft dirty tricks. The fact that Lindows is not shipping with OpenOffice and Mozilla should send up red flags everywhere. My guess is that Microsoft is attempting to embrace and extend the Linux universal API, choking it off in the crib, making certain that the future of Linux will have at least two separate and incompatible implementations. That way they can pick off developers, luring them to the wider user base that they control. Using the vast installed base of Lindows-Windows to implement .NET as a truly universal API and object class system, would not be ut of character. Those guys in Redmond are rotten to the core, and evil to boot.

    ~ge~

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:31 AM
    HELLO!!! Listen up people...LindowsOS DOES come with Open Office, & Star Office AND Mozilla....PLUS tons more linux apps. Microsoft is in no way involved with LindowsOS.

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    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:08 AM
    Of course, you are wrong. LindowsOS does not ship with Open Office or Mozilla simply for the size. You can easily install them via Click N Run Warehouse. They are currently available. All of your conspiracy theories do not make the slightest sense. You need to visit the Warehouse before you childishly make things up.

    #

    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 03:04 AM
    Did found OpenOffice.org, didn't found StarOffice.

    #

    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: jrtanis on June 18, 2002 04:23 AM
    I don't know. I think you may be reading to many conspiracy theories. No, I don't like Lindows, and yes I do agree that promoting the use of Microsoft Application over Linux native alternatives is bad for Linux and not to mention just plain backwards.. but Lindows and MS in bed together? I don't agree. I'd say its just the case of another exec trying to make a quick buck off of a gimmick that sounds pretty to the average desktop user.
    On another note I'd have to admit I still prefer Office to Linux alternatives (well, only MS Word really).. this past year I've been writing alot of papers with soffice.. at the time I didnt have a printer so would use MS Word in one of my universities labs to print. The amount of simple grammer and spelling mistakes soffice would often miss wasn't even funny.. and, as I'm sure you may have noticed, I do require software w/ good checking :). I'm sure experiences may vary, and I hope mine changes with new versions.. but I can only wait and see.

    #

    Re:Microsoft will be pleased

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 18, 2002 09:58 PM
    I was a big fan of the potential of Lindows until yesterdays email from them that they send out time to time. What struck me oddly, and what relates to this post is that the "warehouse" of software that you get access to is mostly free stuff anyway. Yes, they really do have Vim listed as one of the exiting bits of software you can get. But that the wording for this service has changed. It is now stated that it is $99 per year for access to this stuff.
    This tossed me backon my heels. $99 to never have a source, never "own" a program and lock yourself into updates only available over the web. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this exactly what MS is trying to do? If I am not mistaken it is part of Gates dream to set up a distributed model of software ownership, and it looks like Lindows is going down that path. So not only could you mess with the OS model, but try out your own new model as well, seems like a great deal for MS.

    #

    Interesting Note

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 14, 2002 11:49 PM
    The description says Lindows has the ability to run "most" Microsoft programs. That must mean most programs made by Microsoft unless they have made a major breakthrough in WINE

    #

    Re:Interesting Note

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:06 AM
    If you investigate the Lindows web site. The stated intention is to be able to run Windows programs, but currently only a few are supported. The primary one being Office 2k.

    #

    Where's the linuxes?

    Posted by: donousley on June 14, 2002 11:52 PM
    I would love to see some linux on Wal-Mart shelves. Where's the marketing guys for these poor, starving distributions.

    #

    Re:Where's the linuxes?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:03 AM
    Hmmm, I recall seeing both Mandrake and Redhat linux at my local Wal-Mart on the shelves. Maybe it is not at all of them, but around here they stock linux.

    #

    Re:Where's the linuxes?

    Posted by: donousley on June 15, 2002 02:07 AM
    Thanks for the response. I've never seen it here. My point being, some of these distributions should take better advantage of a linux hardware compatible pc. Linux --hardware??? Ah, of course!!

    #

    Re:Where's the linuxes?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:52 AM
    Saw SuSe here at our walmart for like 30 bucks too. not bad.

    #

    Lindows is a joke

    Posted by: yama on June 15, 2002 12:09 AM
    People seem to forget that Lindows encourages people to run as root <A HREF="http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04/09/2230251&mode=thread&tid=23"> all the time </a newsforge.com>, which will enable effective <A HREF="http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/06/07/0121241&mode=thread&tid=16">GNU/Linux virii</a newsforge.com> to be written and distributed easily.

    #

    Re:Lindows is a joke

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:45 AM

    Umm ...
    LSD was created by a researcher in Switzerland.
    UNIX was created at Bell Labs.

    #

    Re:Lindows is a joke

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:14 AM
    While he may be off on the LSD and UNIX statements, the author of this comment has a VERY good point. The very thing that causes many of us die-hard Linux fans to chuckle at Windows is security failures that are primarily associated with a not-so-computer-literate user getting infected with every virus to hit the Internet (not to mention the failure to apply updates for fix the multitude of security problems with Windows).

    If the same people that have a hard time not launching the "Run this executable for your free vacation" attachment and infecting their PC with the last script worm/virus start using "Linux" (I put this in quotes because Lindows - while based on Linux - is not a proper dictribution of Linux), it will end up with the same bad rap that Windows has.

    Never mind the fact that a Unix box has the ability to do a lot more damage (due to a vast array of much more capable networking tools and a superior IP stack) than your average computer running Windows 98/2000/XP.

    This ultimately could put a very bad taste in the mouth of a lot of pointy-haired-managers and other such corporate figures when it comes to looking at Linux.

    #

    Re:Lindows is a joke

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:31 AM
    The biggest security hole in an OS is the user.

    #

    Re:Lindows is a joke

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:16 AM


    Umm, that was a joke you dumbass. He didn't say that either of those two things was created or discovered in Berkeley. He said the equivelant of "Berkeley has two main exports: LSD and Unix", which is close enough to true to make the joke funny, because there are or were a lot of eccentric hippy college students prone to synthesizing hallucinogenic chemicals there and Berkeley is where they wrote the BSD variant of Unix. So, pull your head out of your ass and learn to read. Don't worry you can start using irrelevant historical facts for a buttplug, instead. I know you have at least two.

     

    #

    Re:Lindows is a joke

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:52 AM
    LSD comes from Switzerland, you nut.
    Unix comes from Bell Labs in New Jersey

    #

    Re: budget setup

    Posted by: Bob Halloran on June 15, 2002 12:42 AM
    The <A HREF="http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1818546&cat=79425&type=1&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A37807%3A79425">$49 HP 656 printer</a walmart.com> you reference in the article is HP's token WinPrinter. You have to cough up an extra $30 or so for a <A HREF="http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/product_detail_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1082502807.1024072140@@@@&BV_EngineID=eadcegchhjfhbfdnckgcfjgdgmj.0&product_code=C8934A%23A2L&cat_level=2"> model 845</a hp.com> to get Linux compatibility.

    On the one hand, I love the idea of the Monster of Retail facing down the Monster of Software with 'naked' PCs. On the other hand, I don't know which one I'm more anxious about, given both of them trample their competition with glee and abandon. On the gripping hand, I suspect a lot of people are going to buy these as replacement boxes and just shift their existing copies of Windows over [yah, it's illegal, they should know better, yadayada, but you know it's happening].

    #

    Re: budget setup

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:49 AM
    I suspect a lot of people are going to buy these as replacement boxes and just shift their existing copies of Windows over [yah, it's illegal, they should know better, yadayada ...


    Is it really illegal?


    Sure, the fine print says you can't, but does that really mean it's illegal. I doubt you'll ever see a software vendor, particularly Microsoft, try to press the issue. A ruling that the First Sale Doctrine nullifies all those non-transferable clauses is one of the last things they'd ever want to see.... probably right up there with a Linux-based OS being sold in the mass market to consumers, who will in turn demand linux or at least wine-level compatibility from third party software.

    #

    Re: budget setup

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:08 AM
    In Germany it is explicitly legal to seperate "bundled" software from the hardware it came with.

    This goes for anyone - even the OEM !

    KInd regards

    #

    Re: budget setup

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:51 AM
    All these boxes have ethernet, does walmart also sell cheap cable modems ? No, just $160 USRobotics (I checked). No matter, BestBuy is across the street, they had Motorola's for $49 a couple of weeks ago.

    #

    Beta software?

    Posted by: Russell Pavlicek on June 15, 2002 02:18 AM
    It's very strange that they are offering Lindows, when Lindows has not been released yet; it's still in beta release. The Lindows website says that the current release is not suitable for users who want a seemless product.

    Nowhere on the Wal-Mart site do I see anything that indicates this is beta software.

    #

    Re:Beta software?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:13 PM
    As an Insider to Lindows. This distro that is put on the Walmart machines has been finely tuned to work with the associated hardware that is installed in the computer. It is not the same distro that we, the Insides have been given. Both the hardware and the OS have been honed to work perfectly with each other.

    The distro we have is still broken.

    #

    Re:Beta software?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 18, 2002 04:11 AM
    Either way, aren't they releasing software on a PC that does not *do* all that it is supposed to? I mean if it is being sold preinstalled on a PC, is not the software also being sold?

    #

    Lindows? but PC OK

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:34 AM
    I remembered yesterday why I like WalMart. I purchased one of their OS-Less computers. It arrived yesterday. I ordered the 1GHz Duron for a project but it was dropped after my order was placed. WalMart shipped me the 1.3GHz Duron (currently available model) with all the added stuff without canceling the order and contacting me to re-order, etc. The only problems with the machine so far (I have loaded only looked it over, booted to BIOS, and inspected CDs) is that the CD was connected to the primary IDE controller and the HD to the secondary and I don't seem to see the Windows drivers for the ethernet card on the CD. The modem is data/fax/voice in windows (I don't know if the voice will work in Linux yet).
    I haven't looked at Lindows, but I don't think that I would be interested in it. However, it might appeal to some of WalMarts customers. I won't say anything bad about them for selecting it. It might be a good first step.

    #

    Lindoze???

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:45 AM
    This ought to get under M$FT's skin considering the size of WalMart, My experience with Wine is limited and it did run a few Windoze apps but not very well, what i would rather see is new computers at WalMart's stores with absolutely no OS pre-installed, and a display rack with several of the major Linux distros on it all categorized by ease of use with a summary so customers can decide what they want, like as an example on the shelf labeled "user friendly" would have Mandrake, Redhat, SuSE, and another shelf labeled "for experienced Linux users" distros like Debian, Gentoo, Slackware. and for customers buying a new PC they should be able to get a free distro to choose from, sounds reasonable to me...

    #

    Re:Lindoze???

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 09:50 AM
    I'd say that I'm fairly familiar with Linux -- I've done driver work, contributed to a number of open source projects, and run several servers, and I happily run Red Hat. I and others get a little tired of the completely bogus claim by Debian types that Debian or Slackware are somehow "more advanced" than Red Hat.

    #

    Re:Lindoze???

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 07:03 PM
    me again: what i am refering too, is the install procedure, and configuration, i can assure you that Debian, slackware & Gentoo would be a little daunting for a newbie Linux user to get installed and setup, where Mandrake, Redhat & SuSe do certinly have a more user friendly enviroment for someone with little or no Linux experience, but since you are advanced enough to contribute to OSS and done driver work i guess to you any Linux distro is a no brainer so i am forgiving you of your shortsighted view for not considering joe sixpack's point of view and experience...

    #

    Re:Lindoze???

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 20, 2002 01:37 PM
    This would be a great ideal

    #

    D'oh

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:50 AM
    Congratulations on the instant death of your promising product. What a total and complete demographic oversight and marketing blunder you've managed to make.

    #

    Walmart + Lindows -- This too shall pass.

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:55 AM
    I give it six months. The Walmart demographic is not going to understand Lindows vs. Windows, and will quickly snap whatever tech-support they have in place for these things, leading to massive returns and ill will.

    It would have been in their best interest to leave this out.

    #

    Re:Walmart + Lindows -- This too shall pass.

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:12 AM
    Somebody at Walmart really laid into their crack pipe for this one. As pointed out already, Lindows isn't even a product yet! How STUPID did they have to be? They want to sell these to low-budget folx as a desktop system - so why not put the leading desktop distro out there - Mandrake - on them with Cross-Over Office/Plugin/WINE pre-installed? I guess that's what happens when a retailer tries to be a technician. On the other hand, you can wipe the drives and install whatever you want for a very fine price!

    #

    You are Wrong!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:17 AM
    You all miss the point completely. LindowsOS is not at all affiliated nor associated with Microsoft in any way, shape or form. We only got Office applications like Office 2000 suite to work with Lindows so that users would not have to drop all of their existing applications. LindowsOS is not at all about running Microsoft applications. LindowsOS is about bringing choice to the masses. The main point behind LindowsOS is the <A HREF="http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categories.php">Warehouse</a lindows.com>.This is where the value in Lindows comes from. By purchasing the OS, you get access to thousands of applications for free. Applications such as Open Office, Star Office, Evolution, etc. Instead of the traditional installation of Linux apps which requires: download source, open command line, untar, make, make install, etc. Even an RPM format file requires you to go out to the internet and search for it. LindowsOs has put all the applications in one place. Microsoft has put itself in the situation of possibly losing the trademark on the word 'Windows' due to the suit with Lindows.com. If you think Microsoft is behind them, do you think Microsoft would risk their trademark for some tom foolery? Not a chance.

    #

    Re:You are Wrong!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:38 AM
    The Lindows website suffers from the "font far too small" problem when viewed using a linux-based browser. I wonder if anyone at Lindows actually uses their own OS when they view their website?

    #

    Re:You are Wrong Too!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:01 AM
    "By purchasing the OS, you get access to thousands of applications for free."


    That is not entirely true. For $99 you get an "annual memebership" to download as many apps as you want for one year. After that you have to pay-up again or else get the fuck out. But, this won't last for long. <A HREF="http://sourceforge.net/projects/autoalien">Some people are already working on a free alternative</a sourceforge.net> to the Click-N-Run Whorehouse.

    #

    Re:You are Wrong Too!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:14 PM
    Well at least people in the community are
    trying to replace it instead of denouncing
    it as evil. Well, you are, and we all know
    ease of use and paying for services is evil,
    blah blah blah, but if an open source one
    can be created succesfully than that will
    actually do good to Linux, instead of bashing
    distros that are just trying to pay developement
    expenses. Also, how can you EXPAND if you aren't
    profiting enough to have spare money? What sales
    drop, and they have no money stored? They die.
    If you have money stores and your sales are
    dropping than you can try to invest to boost
    sales.


      -Frapazoid

    #

    Click-N-Run

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:23 AM
    <A HREF="http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categories.php">Warehouse and Click-N-Run</a lindows.com> That is all that is needed to be said.

    #

    Re:Click-N-Run

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 10:03 PM
    You can install Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org) or any of it's derivitives (Libranet is the best right now) and have the SAME THING!!!
    Click-n-Run is just another GUI frontend to Debian's wonderful app "apt". It's not a "new" thing... just a colorful looking one.
    You don't need Click-n-Run to do what it describes.
    I'll tell you a few other "Click-n-Run" type things. There's Synaptic, Gnome-Apt and KPackage (just to get started). They all do the same frigging thing,
    So, save yourself the money (and the subscription because the apps they "offer" are free already!! so don't pay for "access" to them... they're free!). Buy Libranet (half the price), install it, join their awesome mail list for any questions, and you're ready to go. You don't need Lindows for that.
    Perhaps Lindows is better at implementing Wine for the MS apps... perhaps they are and good for them. But "Click-n-Run" is a BS marketing curtain hiding the real Wizard of Oz named "apt".
    So, if you run a Debian-based OS (including Lindows), you can simply type in "apt-get install evolution" and you'll get it. It's that easy without the "Click-n-Run" schtick. Or use Synaptic... my favorite. It's just too easy.
    CP

    #

    Re:Click-N-Run

    Posted by: raindog on June 19, 2002 09:03 AM
    The difference, of course, being that an average someone who has bought a PC from Wal-Mart has a chance in hell of using Click-n-Run within the first year of owning their new computer.

    On the other hand, Click-n-Run-like functionality has existed for some time in the form of Ximian Red Carpet. Red Carpet has never worked too smoothly on my Mandrake 8.0 system though, so hopefully CnR works a little better.

    #

    Root Prayer

    Posted by: emk on June 15, 2002 05:33 AM
    Somehow this made me thing of a prayer I've had around. Maybe Walmart should put it on the Lindows boxes



    Almighty Root

    Who art in Linux

    Careful be thy use

    May thy processes be secure

    In user space as it is in the kernel

    Give us this day complete uptime

    And secure our network services

    Even as we backup our systems.

    And lead us not into proprietary software

    But deliver us from Windows

    For thine is the stable system

    The power and the uptime

    for ever and ever without crashes



    Sudo

    #

    Re:Root Prayer

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:58 AM
    lol lol lol, oh man :)

    #

    A summerization of the replies

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 06:17 AM
    Here is a breif summerization of the replies.

    1) How dareth they ship a distro of Linux that
    isn't sufficiently l33t?

    2) L1nd0wz isn't l33t! Wwaaaahhh!

    3) Walmart is evil! Boycott Boycott!

    4) They don't sell my drug of choice!

    5) Root mode for virii! (I agree with this)

    6) It's beta. (Not many pointed this out.)

    7) The are competitive. (Duh, it's called
    capitalism)

    8) Berkely has something to do with LSD.
    (What was the point of that?)

    MY opinion:

    It's a good thign for Linux. Get over it.
    Even if Walmart isn't always a nice player.

    #

    Root? BETA

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:55 PM
    Hello, people... try to wake up.

    LINDOWS IS BETA. IT IS NOT YET RELEASED.

    I'd bet money that they simply have it pure root during dev. Do you SERIOUSLY think it'll be pure root when it's released???

    While I have no idea why they did it, it's too obvious not to be fixed before release. Until Lindows labels it a "feature", I'd label it a "temporary oversight".

    #

    Re:A summerization of the replies

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 20, 2002 01:43 PM
    I wish the admins would put this post at the top that way people wouldn't have to read all of the other stupid posts. And i wounder how LSD got into it

    #

    Lindows must die!!!!!!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 08:36 AM
    Lindows and all who support it must die!!!!!!!!

    #

    You commie\hippy\anarchist

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:10 PM
    You must die! All who support you MUST DIE!
    LINDOWS NOT L33T! Waaaaah!

    Give it a chance you nerd.


      -Frapazoid

    #

    Fagazoid must die!!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 03:43 PM
    Look you lowlife, you and all who support Lindow is scum of the earth.

    #

    Re:Fagazoid must die!!

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 20, 2002 01:46 PM
    chill you jackasses

    #

    Good luck getting the $49 printer to work.

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 09:45 AM
    Not many people have had luck getting their printers to work under Lindows. The morons at Walmart who are buying these things will CERTAINLY not be able to get them working.

    #

    I supported wal-mart PC buyers

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 10:41 AM
    And they were retards. Seriously really bad people who literally couldn't turn the thing on. If they can't use windows, they aren't going to be able to use this. Imagine their shock when they can't get support for any of their third party peripherals? Oh man I'd love to hear those calls.

    #

    Re:I supported wal-mart PC buyers

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 12:52 PM
    THATS why they are using Lindows instead
    of a "l332t" distro like Debian or Slackass.
    (That joke about Slackware was said with love.)

    Lindows has the whole point+and+download thingy,
    and installation of 3rd party software is likethe #1 ease-of-use problem in Linux.
    (Drivers also count as software.)

    If you can solve program installs, Linux can be
    as easy if not easier than Windows. But until
    we have a standard installation method that
    doesn't suck like RPM, it's going to be quite
    hard to use.

    (And I have heard good things about Debian, though
    I have never used it so I can't judge it one
    way or the other.


      -Frapazoid

    #

    Re:I supported wal-mart PC buyers

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 06:38 AM
    what is billy bob to do if he goes to circuit city and buys a digital camera? Is he going to be able to run his software on that system? What about a better sound card? Will he be able to load the drivers with insmod and configure it correctly? I don't even think lindows itself can handle such a task. We will have to just wait and see.

    #

    Considering Walmart's History...

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 01:37 PM
    Every competitor they've faced down, including Kmart, has been summarily wiped from the planet... Since they're marketing Lindows systems, which makes Microsoft their chief competitor, does that mean they'll take out MS next?

    #

    Re:Considering Walmart's History...

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:13 PM
    that is utterly too optimistic.

    What will happen as one poster said above, that the Lindows tech support team will snap under the pressure of supporting an operating system that requires too much tweaking for its end users. What Wal-Mart (and most) customers expect from an OS is what Microsoft and Apple gives them. You can argue that Linux is better all you freeking want. The end user will NEVER perceive that until they can plug anything into the computer and it will magically work. Period.

    What will happen in this case is that Linux will not just snap into place. It will bend, break, frustrate, bedevil the living daylights out of 90% of the purchasers.

    One of you stated that this must be a Microsoft ploy...Linux supporting Office. You are terribly close. What we have here is a deal between Microsoft and Wal-Mart. A completely unproven distribution of Linux trying to run Office under an ABI (wine). Ain't going to happen, folks.

    Don't even pretend this shhhtuff is going to be more stable that windows xp.

    What will happen within three weeks time. 90% of the machines returned to the stores. Oodles of customer complaints.

    Customers given a "free" copy of windows.

    Microsoft logo emblazoned on the disk. "Windows rescue CD"

    And rescue them it will, from a penny-ante, two-bit, three-wheeled distro of Linux. But the press, the users, will not hear Lindows, they'll perceive Linux as the loser.

    This is the make or break moment folks.

    Do you really think Lindows has got what it takes?

    Sorry to ramble. But I hope it is apparent, that if my dire situation doesn't play out, there is an equally dire one waiting in the wings.

    Lindows the company will have positioned itself in a weaker but very similar position to Microsoft in its early days on the IBM machines. uSoft became synonymous with computing for a great many people, and Lindows hopes to be synonymous with Linux and to completely dominate this burgeoning market.

    #

    Re:Considering Walmart's History...

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:07 PM
    But Windows can't do many of the things that
    you accuse Linux of screwing up on.

    The point and click download thing solves for
    the most part the whole problem of a good program
    install standard.

    Also, how do you know Lindows can't autodetect
    hardware? Just because it's Linux doesn't mean
    a daemon can be worked into the distro to do
    that. With good investment it can be done
    properly.

    Besides, Windows is very very often very
    confusing with hardware installs. Don't go
    saying the average dumbass can install stuff
    for Windows so easily. It gets confused over
    stupid things. I upgraded my CPU once, which
    should be transparent to software, and the
    video in Windows starting screwing up.

    I installed a new video card once into
    a computer with video on the mainboard. Linux
    didn't use the BIOS so it figured out which
    one was working on it's own. Windows got
    terribly confused and it took tens of hours
    to get it working.

    I upgraded a motherboard once, and the sound
    went out on Windows. It needed a reinstall.
    Mandrake AUTODETECTED the new card with ZERO
    effort.

    For hardware, Mandrake can beat the monkeyshit
    out of Windows on hardware installs. Just because
    slackware is hard doesn't mean you can go
    bashing every distro.

    Also, Macintosh is UNIX! Have you USED Lindows?
    Apple PROVES Unix can be made easy to use.
    If you haven't used Linux you should, instead
    of getting pissed when someone has the odacity
    to install Linux on their manufactured computers.

    Give it a chance, damnit! Don't go saying Dell
    gave it a chance. They NEVER advertised the damn
    systems, they hid them on the site, and of course
    no distro at the time was decent to use.

    Here is the biggest problem with Linux ease
    of use: Installing 3rd party software and drivers.
    One of the advertised features of Lindows is
    an online archive of thousands of program that
    you can just "click and run." If it works how they
    say it does, it will beat Windows on that aspect.


      -Frapazoid

    #

    Microtel computers

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:07 PM
    I checked these machines out they pretty much suck. There not that great as far a hardware. SO for under 3k you can get 10 office pc's that you will need to replace very soon or for a little extra cash you can build your own.

    #

    Re:Microtel computers

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 03:58 PM
    On the cheapest one it had 850mhz Duron
    and like 128megs ram.

    The video wasn't very good, but even
    and old ATI RagePro can preform very
    well for 2D purposes. Most offices
    don't need 3D acceleration. If you do
    need it you can get a Gefore2 for
    around 70$.

    Besides, what do you expect for 300$?
    Give them a break.


      -Frapazoid

    #

    What distribution do you suggest?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 02:55 PM
    Microtel so far seems to be listening to the linux users. First people complained about the winmodem so the changed it to be linux compatible. Next people complained about a lack of an os so they added Lindows a Linux distribution that is supposed to support windows software. Can any of you suggest a better distribution easy for new commers and can support some windows software (ie that one peice of windows software people can't be without?)

    Mandrake comes to mind but I don't know how well it supports windows software.

    #

    Re:What distribution do you suggest?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 07:14 PM
    Mandrake is a complete mess i know i'm on it right now. ZZTo many window managers and rpm depends out the butt. Lindows would be much better for the windoze folks.

    #

    What is wrong with you people?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 04:33 PM
    Every time good news comes for Linux, every
    time a linux company does a logical thing, people
    managed to bitch about something.

    Common, bringing ABORTION RIGHTS into this
    to prove a point? Comming up with conspiricy
    theories?

    What about the FANTASIES where Windows can
    "magically" make hardware work? Bullshit.
    If thats what it takes to make people think
    a computer is easy, than there is no such
    thing as an easy to use PC.

    And you people are hate money so much can
    use your coal fueled russian war surplus
    computer, or basically what we would have
    if it weren't for industry competition.

    Oh, and actually use Lindows before you
    tell people what it can and cannot do and
    how well it detects hardware, etc.

    Besides, Microsoft can expand into new
    markets and conquer because it has profit,
    which means it have spare money to invest.
    If Lindows can make profit and get spare money,
    than that is a good thing.

    In addition, they do have to release source
    code to GPL packages that they modify. The
    distro may have closed stuff on it, but if
    they do somethign to the Linux kernel without
    making it a module, they have to release the
    updates.

    Not to mention people complaining about paying
    for the click'n'run service. You are aware it
    cost money to pay for labor and servers?
    Sourceforge may be free for users, but it
    IS funded by some source. What source? A
    commercial company who makes profit so they
    can fund things that don't give an immediate
    return. If SourceForge's supporters weren't
    making profits, they wouldn't have money
    to throw around to fund these enourmous systems.

    Besides, you don't have to buy Lindows. Windows
    is proprietary: Does that mean you are restricted
    from other platforms? No. Such is Lindows.

    Wine compatability: Yes that is a difficult one.
    Codeweavers seems to be doing okay for programs
    that they support: Thats why you tell explicitely
    what should work and what should not.

    Walmarts stance on morning after pills:
    HOW THE HELL DOES THIS EVEN RELATE?
    ENOUGH WITH THAT ALREADY!

    Walmart's business strategy:
    Note how it is SUCCESFUL. Linux distros usually
    are NOT. Microsoft is SUCCESFUL. If they put
    good investment into Lindows, they might be
    able to make it succeed. It may not be
    a fair strategy, but if Lindows becomes more
    successful, hardware support will follow.
    And of course, Lindows uses the Linux kernel
    and the XFree86 graphics core, so what hardware
    works for Lindows will work on other Linux.

    Root mode: Thats a stupid one. They could just
    put a password up on program installers.
    But that doesn't call for them to DIE.

    The machines: Look at it this way. Lindows
    is the same GFX core and kernel as Linux, so
    if hardware is put together to work for Lindows,
    it will work on Slack or Mandrake or whatever.

    Risk: Businesses must take risk. Yes, it very
    well might fall apart after a few months. But
    you know, the biggest risk here is not taking
    one. Also, with the name "Lindows" pasted all
    over it instead of "Linux," the kind of people
    who buy stuff from Walmart might actually not
    make a connection. These are computer illiterate
    people, you know. Most of them would never know
    that Windows2000 is NT 5.0.

    Oh, and one last thing:

      -Frapazoid

    #

    Re:What is wrong with you people?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 05:18 PM
    Thanks for that. I thought I was the only intelligent person still following this story.

    On the other hand, maybe all of the naysayers are M$ Flunkies trying to doom this experiment. Yes, it could be a conspiracy...

    #

    Re:What is wrong with you people?

    Posted by: fitzix on June 15, 2002 11:21 PM
    Or, maybe they just support Freedom and GNU/Linux in general and don't want to see a corrupt company like Lindows fail horribly at something they don't understand, dragging the rest of the community down as they go kicking and screaming?

    I wish them all the luck in the world - I really hope that this works.

    As for other alternatives to Lindows preinstalled on Microtel PCs... someone will pick up the guantlet.

    #

    Re:What is wrong with you people?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 02:29 AM
    But how does this really prevent freedom?
    What IS so corrupt about Lindows?

    In a capitalist society, which wether any
    of us like it or not describes most of the
    world, every company's goal is to capitalize
    on their product. The idea is that when multiple
    companies capitalize against each other, they
    must either develope better technology or
    better price\licensing than the competitor.

    Thats why the US government is trying to break
    down the MS monopoly: When only one company is
    around and locks in consumers, there is no
    competition to drive technology forward, and
    the whole point of capitalism is lost.

    The Linux companies, or most of them, have
    bad coorperate strategies. They may have
    better technology, but if they can't produce
    profit, they can't expand. I do believe most
    of the profit potential is lost because there
    are so many of them, and they should consolodate.
    (Like what UnitedLinux is doing, which you
    people also shoot down.) The other way is to
    actually get people to pay for the product
    or service. Like paying for click'n'run.
    If they produce profit frmo that, they can
    fund developement of things like the kernel,
    glibc, x and other core components, improvements
    which due to the licensing MUST be returned
    to the community, and thats a good thing.

    Also, if they can expand, they can get more
    software developers and hardware companies
    to support Lindows.
    Since Lindows is technically Linux, that means
    the hardware working on Lindows will also
    function on other Linux systems. Also, the
    software ought to work too. Software may need
    a little manual work, but look, every Linux
    program is a bitch to install already.
    (Thats why click'n'run is important, installing
    is like the #1 ease of use problem here.)

    They may be trying to capitalize on it, but
    if they can produce good profit than they
    can survive periods of poor sales and can also
    expand the business when sales are doing okay.
    That also means they can fund OSS developemnt,
    like developement on Linux, GNU and XFree.
    (GNU being OS minus kernel, Xfree being the GFX
    display subsystem, Linux being the kernel
    attached the GNU OS.)

    So even if you don't use software from the
    corrupt Lindows company, you can still
    profit from them profiting.

    #

    Re:What is wrong with you people?

    Posted by: fitzix on June 16, 2002 06:19 AM
    But how does this really prevent freedom?
    What IS so corrupt about Lindows?


    Don't know much about Lindows, do you?

    That's no crime, let me explain a couple of things. Lindows' corporate attitude is what the problem is. The "insider" program is generally closed and that's problematic. Although not illegal, they have not released changes that they made to wine when it was under a BSD style license - which is unethical (if not illegal) and damages the freedom of the community inherently.

    The NDA issues of the "insider" program also damage people's freedom. Although they can't stop people from distributing GNU GPL'ed software, it's the attitude that is very problematic. Then, after the community criticizes their approach, they have the balls to be surprised and disenchanted. Well, stop pissing on us - that's the solution.

    Anyway, don't kid yourself - these activities are damaging to Freedom and they are things that the community SHOULD be concerned with.

    In a capitalist society, which wether any of us like it or not describes most of the world, every company's goal is to capitalize on their product. The idea is that when multiple companies capitalize against each other, they must either develope better technology or better price\licensing than the competitor.

    Thats why the US government is trying to break down the MS monopoly: When only one company is around and locks in consumers, there is no competition to drive technology forward, and the whole point of capitalism is lost.


    Nice speech - albeit slightly off. First and foremost nobody here is attacking capitalism. Your entreaty to the emotional leftovers of the cold war is misplaced here.

    Second, don't be fooled into believing that there's some altruistic goal in the US antitrust trial. If the problems had been raised by the community they would not have been addressed. It is strictly because other major corporations brought up the issues (campaign funding) that it was being addressed.

    (Like what UnitedLinux is doing, which you people also shoot down.)

    UL has a number of issues associated with it. Not the least of which is the fact that it's leading companies have a questionable reputation with the community, to say the least.

    Let's not get into that here - it's OT. But let's just say that I think your attitude is dangerous. The community must address potential issues - we can't walk rank and file into situations trusting people who have proven themselves to be untrustworthy (Ransom Love) in the past.

    The other way is to actually get people to pay for the product or service. Like paying for click'n'run. If they produce profit frmo that, they can fund developement of things like the kernel, glibc, x and other core components, improvements which due to the licensing MUST be returned to the community, and thats a good thing.

    I don't see your point. Nobody is taking issue with the fact that Lindows is charging for a software distribution service - that is a time honored model of getting funding for Free Software companies. And I have not read anything that anyone has said against this model here. I know I certainly wasn't referring to it.

    every Linux program is a bitch to install already. (Thats why click'n'run is important, installing is like the #1 ease of use problem here.)

    Actually, most GNU/Linux programs are easy to install from a usage point of view. Click-n-Run (like Red Carpet) adds an easy to use interface to it (GUI, not CLI -- although the difference is one of taste)... which has significant value.

    But, don't FUD the install package managers - they're actually well designed generally speaking.

    So even if you don't use software from the corrupt Lindows company, you can still profit from them profiting.

    In a way, yes - but they can also do a lot to damage us as well, if they aren't ethical.

    Code submission (which Lindows has thus not done in significant amounts) is not the only issue. If the company gets powerful and has, from day 1, attacked our way of doing things (and they have) that is not good for the community. This has nothing to do with capitalism or business models. It has to do with respect for the community. Lindows - much like Caldera - has shown a measure of contempt for the community. I find that odd considering the fact that 99% of their product was created and "donated" to them by that same community.

    If people don't learn to treat this politically - we're all screwed. What you are espousing here is the kind of damage that Open Source ideologies (as opposed to Free Software ideologies) are doing to the community. Freedom is inherently pragmatic. Without it, GNU/Linux means nothing.

    It's that simple. And if they want to support the use of NDA style agreements, then I will not support them - and neither should you.

    #

    Wal-Mart Choice

    Posted by: Ryan Scheideman on June 15, 2002 07:22 PM
    When I heard about Wal-Mart deciding to sell PC's with Lindows on them i thought great....anything that can bring linux to the desktop would be greatly appreciated.

    #

    Lindows not GNU/Linux

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:05 PM
    Everyone is so pleased that Linux is being pre-installed on computers in a major chain, that they fail to notice that Lindows is not a GNU/Linux distribution.

    It's a root-using Windows wannabe.

    #

    Bta = Unfinished

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:59 PM
    Do you really think it'll be root only after its finished??

    #

    Re:Bta = Unfinished

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 03:07 PM
    It's that the basis behind the entire 'Click and Run' thing? You gotta be root for that....

    #

    $299? Common price in Canada

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:27 PM
    To be honest, getting a $299us computer isn't really all that remarkable to me. I live in Canada, where under $400cdn computers have been common for quite a while (months to over a year). And that translates to under $260us or so.

    Course, that doesn't come with an operating system et al, but I just found it funny that you guys keep going on and on about how cheap it is, when you could probably get a cheaper system just north of your border.

    And yes, that's at a Mom & Pop shop.

    #

    PS: some links

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 15, 2002 11:49 PM
    Just thought I'd post some links in case anyone wanted some details with my previous post. And of course we'll still talking about very low end intro computers, same as at Walmart.

    What'll be sweet is if mom & pop learn from Walmart and start including Linux (Lindows or otherwise). It'd be a Linux marketting heaven.

    Remember, these links list Canadian prices.
    $1 cdn = $0.65 us (or so)

    http://imadapc.com/d1000.htm
    http://pcwcomputer.ca/systems.html
    http://legendcomputer.ca/systems.htm
    http://www.cancomputer.com/system.asp

    #

    Re:$299? Common price in Canada

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 02:31 AM
    Wow, you people sure have a nice economy :)

    How do the Canadian cheapo computers compareto
    ours?


      -Frapazoid

    #

    Re:$299? Common price in Canada

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 05:59 AM
    Check the sites I posted.
    I don't know what your cheapos are like.

    Uhhh... mostly Duron 850 or Celeron 900s...
    128mb sdram, 20gb hdd
    onboard video, sound, networking, winmodem
    cheap speakers and keyboard, mouse, etc to complete. A little bonus software, no operating system (of course!)

    Some have more, few have less. How does this compare?

    Tzephtan (who did the orig post)

    #

    Root = beta only, or feature?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 06:08 AM
    Has Lindows said anything about running as root only? Have they tried to spin it as a feature or anything?

    It's a beta product, and I'd bet that "root only" is a temporary thing that'll be fixed when it's actually released. I don't think that they've ignored everyone whining about it.

    But seriously, they tell you upfront that it's an unfinished product. Sure, I have no idea why they did this in the first place, but it's a beta product. Cut them some slack, for goodness sakes.

    BETA = UNFINISHED

    Do you really think that ROOT ONLY will be in the finished product?

    #

    Re:Root = beta only, or feature?

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 02:08 PM

    About Lindows

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 16, 2002 03:46 PM
    Lindows is for losers, wannabes and lowlife scum. So if that's what you want to become, use it.

    You Have Been Warned!

    #

    What are we gonna do?

    Posted by: Adam Luchjenbroers on June 16, 2002 05:36 PM
    We can sit here as long as we want and debate whether or not this is a Microsoft conspiracy, we can prophesise good or bad outcomes for as long as we like. But as it has been shown, there is a possibility for it turn ugly and one thing we should try to do is prevent that.



    We are not powerless here. There is a community who has worked hard to bring Linux to where it is today, we are part of it and we can call on it. Now I am probably not the person to be giving the orders, what I say is a suggestion meant to open up conversation on this topic



    Users are likely to run into technical problems, we should try to direct them to their local LUGs for tech support. This will fix their problems and may even cause them to join.



    Lindows is beta software, and as such is likely to have bugs. Lindows.com will not be able to fix them and without the sourcecode we can't either. They are obliged under the GPL to give us the source and we should obtain it.



    There will be people who buy the cheap printer, they will run into problems when they try to install it. Or at least they will if we can't create a working driver for it quickly



    What comes of this is up to us, the mainstream consumers are about to have a run-in with Linux and if we want mainstream consumers to use it then we better make sure they enjoy it

    #

    OMG

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 06:25 AM
    I could just imaging the look on billy bob's face when he can't run a damn thing on his computer like all of his windows-running friends. He will probably send it back. I love linux, however, after working enough tech support jobs, I can say but one thing: this is going to be a disaster for the people that buy these machines.

    #

    Hmmmm

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2002 12:53 PM
    I personally don't like this whole business, I dont trust the people of Lindows no matter who they are or what "honest living" they are trying to make. One of the things that gets me is that everyone is calling it a new OS... all it is, is Linux + KDE + Wine. Everyone if you want a lindows compatable machine as long as you use LINUX you are basically running the same friggen thing. AHHHH I personally choose to run away screeming, I thought RedHat and Mandrake was bad when they came out... I'm seriously thinking of BSD, because Linux is seriously being watered down as we speak... By walmart? ahhh run awwaaayyy! Slack is it.

    #

    I'd be interested... if

    Posted by: Brian Masinick on June 18, 2002 12:50 AM
    I'd be interested in trying out the combination of a Wal-Mart PC running Lindows ... if:

    1) Lindows would come clean and make the GPL components of their software clearly, cleanly, and obviously available in public locations. Charging $99 to get a peek at who knows what is not my idea of openness.

    If I could get a better look at what they were doing, I might be more interested in shelling out money for it. But right now, I see little reason to do so, particularly when I already have NINE different versions of operating systems on my computer, none of which I paid more than a few dollars for to get on CD.

    2) I'd want to be able to see online demonstrations of these systems running Lindows in my local Wal-Mart store, and if I were to purchase one, I'd want to be able to check it out first, then have the ability to return it if it wasn't what I was looking for.

    I haven't visited Wal-Mart recently. One of the main reasons for that is that the last time I visited my local retailer, I waited around 1/2 hour to ask some questions about a product I was interested in purchasing, never got the help I sought, despite 3+ requests for specific department help, so I haven't returned to Wal-Mart since then.

    I'd like to hear from someone who has DEFINITELY had a positive experience with both Lindows and Wal-Mart (without being an employee or stockholder in either company). :-)

    #

    Few questions

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 18, 2002 05:04 AM
    Where are the non-technical people who buy these machines going to get them fixed? Wal-Mart doesn't have a service center in their stores. You can't really take this thing to a local repair shop because they won't know Linux. It just seems like combining Lindows with Wal-Mart customers is just going to cause confusion and headaches.

    They have to be very sure that the people know they can only run certain Windows apps with their computer. You don't want people buying other software at Wal-Mart, or anywhere else, and just bringing it back because they thought all windows software would run.

    #

    the costs of Lindows

    Posted by: Tony on June 18, 2002 05:12 AM
    As I read it, you get only 3 items from the "Click and Run Warehouse" with the WalMart PC. More than that, and the "thousands of programs" require you to sign up as a regular $99 member of Lindows ... and this is a _yearly_ fee (right?)

    If "click and run" really works, it might be worth the fee ...

    tony

    #

    Go get 'em !

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 20, 2002 02:31 AM
    you can find the PCs in question @ http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp ?cat=96356&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937% 3A86796%3A96356&bti=0&sb=61

    #

    Hmmm is this the real McCoy...I think not

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 20, 2002 06:36 PM
    I hail from India....a predominant Windows bastion. As far as piracy rates go...we're only second only to our nemesis, namely Pakistan. Anyhow people out here use Windows like it's the only OS on the face of this earth. Multiple licensing did u say...duH! wheres the burner?? We create licenses as we please here.

    The point I'm trying to make here is that people by and large are oblivious to Linux, Mac, FreeBSD et all. Everyone wants windows, much to my own disgust.

    The concept of Lindows is a good step ahead...inspite of all it's shortcomings. I just hope that it supports Standard Windows Device drivers ...havent come across anything which verifies that. The moment someone tells me they've been getting 50 FPS in Unreal with a Ge-force2 in 800X600, you can consider me to be a Lindows convert.

    Havent seen anything abt dual boot either...does it come with a boot manager like FIPS??

    #

    Re:Hmmm is this the real McCoy...I think not

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 27, 2002 06:29 AM
    FIPS is for partitioning isnt it ?

    I think LILO is the bootmanager . . .

    #

    thought is was "broadbandOS"

    Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 01, 2002 07:05 AM
    why the hell does it come with a modem? i thought at least it would have a network card in it. y would they call it a "broadbandOS" if it is installed on a system that just has a cheap old 56k. go figure!

    #

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