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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

By Jeremy LaCroix on August 30, 2008 (2:00:00 PM)

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KDE 4.1, released last month, brought a great number of improvements to the popular desktop environment. It's the best desktop I've ever used -- but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better. 2009 will see the release of KDE 4.2. Here are 10 features that would be great additions to a future KDE release that I hope the developers will consider.

Easier theme installation

One of the things I love most about the GNOME desktop is how easy it is to install new themes for it. Typically all you need to do is drag and drop a new theme into the configuration dialog and it's ready to be used.

KDE 4 has a nifty way of installing new Plasma themes by integrating the configuration with the KDE-Look Web site. As it stands currently, for window borders and system themes, you must download packages from your distribution's repositories or compile new themes yourself. In future versions, perhaps there could be a link that allows you to install themes directly from KDE-Look, similar to the way you can install new Plasma themes.

Automatically pause desktop effects while 3-D or full-screen apps run

The desktop effects in KDE 4 are top-notch, and offer all sorts of effects from transparency to wobbling windows. If you're a gamer, you may notice that some 3-D games take a performance hit when desktop effects are enabled, unless of course you have a video card with tons of video RAM. It can be difficult to balance desktop effects in a way that doesn't affect the frame rates of computer games.

It would be nice if KDE could recognize when desktop effects aren't needed and pause them temporarily to allow the resources on a system's video card to be dedicated to a tasks that need them more. For example, if you launch a full-screen 3-D game, desktop effects aren't needed while the game is running. In that instance, desktop effects should be paused until the program has closed. Even if you are running a 3-D game that isn't full screen in an active window, desktop effects may still hamper performance, so they should be disabled while it's running.

I submitted this idea to the KDE developers some time ago, but it wasn't implemented in KDE 4.1.

More Plasmoids in the online installer

In the newest release of KDE, you can install Plasmoids by clicking "Install new widgets" from within the Add Widgets menu. Unfortunately, at the time of this writing, only one Plasmoid, PicoNet, is available to install. I would like to see more Plasmoids added to this menu, so users can avoid having to download one from KDE-Look and compile it themselves.

Include an RSS newsreader Plasmoid by default

In early builds of KDE 4, an RSS newsreader Plasmoid was included in Playground alongside the news ticker Plasmoid. Unfortunately, in my install of KDE 4.1, this app is nowhere to be found, not even in my distribution's repositories. The RSS newsreader is similar to the news ticker, but it organizes the news headings in a better way by putting each heading into a list. It would be great if the RSS newsreader again became a part of the default KDE 4 install.

Grid for organizing Plasmoids

If you have quite a few Plasmoids on your desktop, getting them all lined up can be time-consuming. A checkerboard grid that appears when you move or resize a Plasmoid to help you line it up with other Plasmoids would make organizing your desktop apps a cinch.

List applications in the kickoff menu by name

The current way of listing applications in the KDE 4.1 kickoff menu is difficult to understand at times. Applications are alphabetized in the menu by description, rather than the name of the app. For example, if you wanted to launch Firefox, you would normally look for it alphabetically under "F." Since the applications are listed by the description, you'd have to look for Firefox under "W" for "Web Browser - Firefox" instead.

The KDE 3 series ordered applications similarly, but you could configure it to sort the applications by the name, which is a great deal more convenient. I'd like this configuration option to return to KDE 4. Until then, the only way to change the ordering that I know of is to use KMenuEdit to organize the applications menu yourself, which can take some time. I submitted this idea to the KDE bug database, but this feature has not yet been implemented.

Customize favorite applications list

With KDE 4's kickoff menu, you can add applications to a favorites list for easier access, but I have found no way to organize this list, other than to remove all of the icons and then re-add them in the order you want them. I'd like to see a function that allows you to drag and drop the icons in a different order, or even include this ability in KMenuEdit to allow you to customize it there. This is a very minor complaint.

Separate wallpapers for each virtual desktop

I haven't found a way to display a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop. When I started using Linux in 2001 or so, this feature was common, as it helped differentiate each desktop. I would like to see it return to KDE.

Hiding and autohiding the panel

While this feature was already suggested to the developers, I'm including it here because it must be one of the most requested features to return in KDE 4. In the KDE 3 series and below you could click on an arrow to hide the panel, or even make it autohide when not being used. I'd like to see the ability to hide a panel make a comeback.

Make KDE faster

Finally, I'd like to see more work done in speeding up KDE. KDE 4.1 already is a fast and efficient desktop, and the KDE developers have done a great deal already in this regard. However, there's always room for improvement, since the less RAM needed to run KDE, the more people that would be able to run it.

As it is, the KDE desktop is already wonderful and full-featured. The amount of innovation that the developers were able to squeeze into the latest release is amazing, and I'm looking forward to future versions. If you have great ideas of your own for improvements, consider getting involved with the KDE project, and propose your ideas to the developers.

Jeremy LaCroix is an IT technician who writes in his free time.

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on Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 77.120.128.157] on August 30, 2008 02:44 PM
As for me, I need only usable Ark and KDevelop. Another KDE parts works good. All else is insignificant.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.177.37.128] on September 02, 2008 08:29 AM
I have to agree. I'm using KDE 4.1 and Ark isn't in a usable state. I'd also like an Ark integration with file manager. In KDE 3.5 you could just right-click and extract an archive.

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K3b and Amarok2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.52.174.5] on August 30, 2008 02:59 PM
The only thing I'm waiting for is K3b being ported to KDE 4 and Amarok 2 becoming stable. Then KDE 4 will be perfect for me. Oh yeah and I'm wating for NVIDIA to fix their drivers which do a very poor job at accelerating KDE 4, but since these are not open source KDE developers can do very little about it.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.178.168.198] on August 30, 2008 03:00 PM
autohiding the panel -------------> in the list for kde 4.2, nearly done
Separate wallpapers for each virtual desktop -------------------> in the list for kde 4.2, nearly done.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 193.179.202.174] on September 01, 2008 12:45 PM
So it's super.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 90.41.186.170] on August 30, 2008 03:03 PM
Hiding and autohiding the panel : ith this [http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/08/panel-authohide.html] post, it's look like, it will be shipped in kde 4.2

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.50] on August 30, 2008 03:03 PM
Working keyboard shortcuts. Most important thing to add.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.18.1.36] on September 01, 2008 04:32 PM
+1 (more like +1000 if possible :)

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.74.207.42] on August 30, 2008 03:26 PM
1) Quit whining about nVidia, use non-buggy functions

2) Have a user-friendly developer attitude

3) Finish your HIG for gods's sake.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.52.174.5] on August 30, 2008 03:48 PM
1) So only because one hardware company can't get their drivers right the entire Linux desktop and user interface should not advance and be behind in technology. Doesn't make any sense. Maybe that's why other toolkits/desktops are falling behind because they are to afrai to push the envelope.
2) This depends on the individual developer. Out of several 100s of developers there are sure a few that are hard to approach but a huge majority is nice to work with. And keep in mind that it also depends on how you approach the developer.
3) If I remeber this is being worked on constantly but it takes time and can't be finished over night or else the job would be done poorly. I'm sure the KDE HIG team would appreciate any help to get this done faster.

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Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.62.100.49] on September 02, 2008 08:05 AM
Sorry but I must agree with 1) with the comment previous to yours...

Compiz works GREAT on NVidia hardware, ah how come? well they detect if they are working on Intel, ATI, NVidia etc and probably tweak some behaviour after that. It took some time, compiz and beryl used to be buggy, but now they are quit stable. And before you start with the excuses:
- Yes NVidia should publish Open Source drivers, BUT that is no excuse to make things work with their current proprietary drivers which have been the best available for Linux 3D for a while.
- And have you noticed that Intel's drives, even being open sourced, have still problems? (some cards can't have textures big enough for the desktop cube or some other effects, etc) so again the Open Source complaint, although legitimate, is no excuse for poor driver usage.
- And again, why the Open Source project named Compiz can do it and KDE's KWin cannot? Shouldn't they build on Compiz (ah! no! its too GNOMish for the KDE guys, isn't it?)

I was a KDE user up to KDE 3.5.8 or 9, but I got tired of lagging behind GNOME because KDE 4 was the developers main focus and 3.5 was being a little abandoned; Compiz not very well integrated, k3b started to burn my CDs badly (usually had to do 2 to get one good), firefox 3 had some problems within Kubuntu look and feels, etc. Still Konqueror is way better than Nautilus and Konsole is more flexible than Terminal, but I still can use them from Ubuntu (yes, without the K)..

Dolphin you say? why do I need to have 2 canvas at each side of the files (which are the real important thing) taking space for DOING NOTHING, don't you know the eee revolution means you do not always have screen space to spare?

If Qt 4 was going to give a 25% performance boost, why does KDE 4 (yes even 4.1) feel like you are running Vista?

Will we have to wait for KDE 4.5 to start thinking of a switch back to KDE?

The Gnome guys will probably thank the KDE team for KDE4... but the users won't because the Gnome-KDE competition kept the GUIs improving while if KDE lags behind or takes the Vista-like route the Gnome guys will probably start get too relaxed and the GUIs will stop evolving at the same rate they were a few years ago... so MACOSX and Windows future improvements will be more difficult to reach or surpass.

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Re(2): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 78.45.81.84] on September 04, 2008 07:02 AM
> And again, why the Open Source project named Compiz can do it and KDE's KWin cannot?

Because, sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with Compiz or KWin, this is about Qt4. KWin works fine with nvidia too, and KDE4 with Compiz would be still slow on affected nvidia cards. Next time please agree only with things you understand and don't need to ask about, thank you.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.126] on September 04, 2008 04:26 AM
Actually talking to nVidia really helped the bugs were issues on their side and AFAIK have been fixed in the latest beta version of the drivers.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 86.17.95.16] on August 30, 2008 04:21 PM
Someone to tell me what the fuck a Plasmoid is.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.114.180.85] on August 30, 2008 04:56 PM
Haven't you heard? It's the hottest new thing since sliced bread or browser tabs.
Most people have files and shortcuts in their desktop, well in KDE4 you have these nifty widgets focused on desktop usability like an analog clock, calendar, rss reader or the infamous twitter client Aseigo uses so much. I bet you've seen them in every kde4 desktop screenshot; all reviewers are crazy about filling their desktop with plasmoids..

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 91.108.184.67] on August 31, 2008 06:33 PM
a widget as named by a marketing department

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 127.0.0.1] on August 30, 2008 04:51 PM
ADULT supervision. Restore the concept that form follows function

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 117.193.33.47] on August 30, 2008 06:51 PM
When anyone says that, they usually get into Form Follows Fiasco...

Mostly, form seems to follow whatever its creator wants it to follow

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 62.174.233.85] on August 30, 2008 05:03 PM
My wishlist:
- make a decent network manager
- make session manager work the way it should
- port nifty KDE3 apps such as remote desktop (server and client), kvpnc, personal file server, kdewebdev(!), kpowersave(!!!) to KDE4
- make it easier to edit the panel properties
- more intuitive dragging of plasmoids
- must be forgetting something, but you get my drift.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.231.41.29] on August 30, 2008 08:19 PM
- make a decent network manager
This is not the KDE developers work, if you mean the GUI frontend for networkmanager there is already one in progress.

- make session manager work the way it should
For me it works as good as in KDE3

- port nifty KDE3 apps such as remote desktop (server and client), kvpnc, personal file server, kdewebdev(!), kpowersave(!!!) to KDE4
Remote desktop (server and client) is already ported.
I am not sure, but I think it's the same with kvpnc.
For personal file server you can use Kepas.
Kdewebdev is under porting progress.
Kpowersave is under porting progress.

- make it easier to edit the panel properties
Are you using KDE 4.0.x?

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.75.214.48] on August 30, 2008 05:04 PM
>>In future versions, perhaps there could be a link that allows you to install themes directly from KDE-Look, similar to the way you can install new Plasma themes.

>>Unfortunately, at the time of this writing, only one Plasmoid, PicoNet, is available to install.

>>Include an RSS newsreader Plasmoid by default

These are already available in the rawhide repository of Fedora and I suspect other distros as well. Which means when the next Fedora release which will actually be the one that uses KDE 4.1 is released it will have these.

As for the memory I just looked at what is eating memory on my system and KDE is eating almost none of it. Fire fox which isn't a KDE application is eating 25% on it's own. I'm not hacking on Firefox as I really like their application. I just think the author should be sure he knows what is using up his memory before posting. Also be aware that memory management in Linux is different than it is in Windows.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.47.68.123] on September 08, 2008 12:05 AM
Sorry, but your comment is completely wrong:
* No, you cannot install Qt widget styles, KWin window decorations and most plasmoids though KHotNewStuff. Not in Fedora, nor in any other distribution. This is technically impossible, as those themes/plasmoids are compiled C++ code and must be compiled for the particular distribution, so your distribution's repository is the proper place to distribute them. (A few of them are already in Fedora's repository, and more stuff, like Lancelot, is being packaged.) Only plasmoids entirely written in an interpreted scripting language and Plasma themes (which are SVG only, no code) can be installed through KHotNewStuff, compiled stuff can't and probably never will.
* Fedora doesn't ship any plasmoids which aren't part of KDE 4.1 in its kdebase-workspace and kdeplasma-addons packages. Other stuff belongs to separate packages, and there is currently no package for the RSS newsreader. Whoever wants it in Fedora will have to package it and submit it for review.
* You do not have to wait for Fedora 10 to get KDE 4.1, it is available as an update for Fedora 9. (Well, it will be available for all users in a couple days, when the repositories with the new signing key are finally available.)

-- Kevin Kofler

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 124.106.181.94] on August 30, 2008 05:30 PM
> Easier theme installation

This is true, if only partly true. Comparing KDE's "theme" system to Gnome's is not really that accurate, considering that they don't really refer to exactly the same thing. What you are actually installing when you install a "theme" in Gnome is really just a tarball containing color schemes, pixmaps for window decorations or widgets, etc. On the other hand, what is usually called as a "theme" in KDE-Look (actually it's a misnomer) are widget "styles" and window decorations. They are not simply themes but engines or plugins. So you are really installing a program, not simply slapping on some config files or color settings.

So when you are installing a "style/theme" in KDE, you are actually installing a new widget engine, or a new window decoration plugin. In contrast, in Gnome, you are really just changing the settings of whatever GTK+ engine is being used. Try having to add a new GTK+ engine that isn't installed yet. You will undoubtedly have to use packages or compile them. And in the case of the window decoration, Metacity is built to be themeable using just pixmaps and that's that. All this would be functionally equivalent to having something like Domino or QtCurve installed as your widget style and deKorator as your window decoration. In that case, you'll be able to just drag and drop "themes" (which are basically just config files and/or pixmaps) to theme them.

- Jucato

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 78.32.53.65] on August 30, 2008 06:19 PM
all the suggestions in the article are excellent in my opinion. I too am eagerly anticipating amarok 2 and koffice 2, but neither of those are technically 'improvements for kde 4.2', to be honest.

Good article, I really really, REALLY hope that all these are implemented - it would simply be fantastic, and make kde4 the undisputed king of the DE, if it isn't already!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.180.197.47] on August 30, 2008 07:59 PM
the biggest improvement that can be made is to forget the 4.xx of KDE and just continue improving the 3.5 version. I quite frankly cant stand Gnome and now the new KDE is also in that category. I say if the current developers of KDE insist on the current path (which is obvious that they are) it is time that KDE be forked. I for one will continue using the 3.5 version while I explore the lighter weight desktops, after all ones desktop experience is a matter of personal taste unless you are still a slave to Windoze and for me KDE 4 leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.123.157.32] on August 31, 2008 03:12 PM
I'm still using KDE 3.5, I find 4.1 too unpolished for me. Still, I watch the news and, from time to try, even try the latest betas, to see the progress. I have faith that the community which created Kde 3.5 will be able to polish Kde 4 and make it a good replacement for my current desktop. Remember: nobody forces you to upgrade! I'm already using a lot of KDE 4 apps, they work just fine in Kde 3

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Windows-menu "Cascade" and "Unclutter"

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.15.176.4] on August 30, 2008 08:15 PM
I *really* wish the Windows-menu "Unclutter" and "Cascade" items were user-configurable, or at least not hard-coded to be at the top of the menu. When accidentally triggered (which happens!), they are *absolutely* *DISASTROUS* for a carefully-set-up multi-variable GIS display configuration on a 3600x2400-virtual/1920x1200-physical display!!!!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 130.243.149.140] on August 30, 2008 08:36 PM
the most annoying things in KDE 4.1 for me are:
- keyboard shortcuts that do not work
- network manager that can't work with manually edited conf files and can't establish ad-hoc connection

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.47.44.9] on August 31, 2008 02:37 PM
network manager that can't work with manually edited conf files and can't establish ad-hoc connection

While this is not KDE related and therefore lighlty offtopic, version 0.7 of NetworkManager can do that. I am not sure if it has been released yet, however some distributions are shipping it already.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: PerlCoder on August 30, 2008 08:56 PM
Who currently is writing all the plasmoids? I was just wondering if there was a way to get more individual developers involved in that, instead of laying all the burden on the KDE team. The most ideal situation would be something like we have with Firefox where individual developers code the extensions and the main website makes the packages available for download.

In all probabilty, the KDE teams are already working toward something like that.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 98.180.212.88] on August 30, 2008 09:57 PM
pico is the only one thats for kde4.1
there was more when i was using 4.0
so its not the kde deveopers faults, its the plasmoid developers fault, they need to upgrade

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.208.74.190] on August 30, 2008 10:52 PM
Keyboard shortcuts....keyboard shortcuts....

How in the world can a window/desktop manager exist in 2008 without keyboard shortcuts? How is it possible that we've gotten to 4.1 without them?

Let's face it: the KDE 4.XX project is the work of arrogant and myopic developers who are so full of themselves that they've forgotten about usability.

And try now to respond with the standard stuff about it being free and them not being paid. If all volunteer and service people took the attitude that they were somehow better than the rest of us because they do things for nothing, there'd be no such thing as volunteerism and service.

Plasmoids? So what. All the eye candy in the world cannot compensate for lack of function and usability.

The XFCE desktop that I switched to after having used KDE from 3.0 through 3.5.9 is more functional in a thousand ways than KDE 4.1.

I'm looking forward, though, to KDE 5.0. I assume that it will hold the promise of teleporting users to the moon....of wait...not 5.0...that will be beta...it will be real in 5.1....no 5.2...no, 5.3...

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 01, 2008 12:02 AM
I agree. Linux is destined to be stuck as a tinker toy for developers unless developers stop jerking themselves off as to how they can make ever more desktop features transparent, wobble or whatever other 'eye candy' can they waste the users computing resources on. Linux is good as a server because you don't need to deal with this nonsense. XFCE will be my desktop of choice when I ever upgrade from RH 7.3. Simple, functional, clean, efficient. It does what it's supposed to do without hoopla, or trying to impress me or prove something. I run a Desktop Environment to manage the other programs I WANT to run, not to just sit and marvel at the 'experience'. OH, there's another OS where you're supposed to sit and marvel at it before you even begin the tasks you turned the computer on in the first place for. I think that's an MS one. You know, the one where they think users don't use their computers to run apps, but just "experience" the OS to pass time. They also have the same idea of forcing users to want what THEY want the users to want. I.e., we know whats good for you, so even though your comfortable with this paradigm, WE shall decide what you should want. I thought Linux was different, which is why I originally switched.

Here's a hint. People log into or turn their computers on either to play games, surf the net, write e-mails, calculate stuff, do some kind of task or something. The Desktop Environment is merely incidental to that.

I, like nearly all other computer users don't run my PC for the express purposes of running KDE or developing KDE desktop plasmoids. I run KDE (at the moment 3.1 on my machine) as a means of launching other programs and switching between them. The DE is merely incidental, it definately should NOT be slowing my games down, as this article hinted at.

But if you tell developers what users need, they don't like it. If we did what was actually best for the users, what would actually bring them from MS rubbish, developers wouldn't be able to show of their leet effects like wobbling windows (WTF?) to users who really don't care after them after 40 minutes anyway.

Thankfully projects like IceWM, fluxbox, FVWM and XFCE exist. If I was a windows user now considering Linux, I'd be far less likely to switch, as it seems many of MS's faults have trasnferred over to the GNU/Linux world.

I'd like to see Linux succeed, but developers for apps, and especially apps like KDE which most users will think IS Linux, need to be mindful of the users requirements of their COMPUTER and not just the DE.

It seems people forget, that 99% of people interact with the DE ONLY to start programs, and switch between them. They are not intrested in managing icons or plasmoids, and nor should they be. They didn't turn their PC on to do that. They turned it on to start Doom 3 or Firefox or OOCalc (or Excel) or publishing software. The DE should do what any good software should do, and understand it's place.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.103.3.138] on September 02, 2008 04:55 AM
1. Press Alt+F2
2. systemsettings
3. Click "Keyboard & Mouse"
4. Click "Keyboard Shortcuts"
5. Realize that you're a dumbass.

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Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.50] on September 02, 2008 09:18 AM
Err... no! You have no idea what you are talking about.

In konqueror some shortcuts don't work all the time - ctrl + for changing font size for example sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ctrl - w to close tabs ditto.

In Akregator, keyboard shortcuts don't work at all.

editing the kmenu and adding a short cut for launching a program doesn't work. (try it!)

there are open bugs on all of these.

also many applications (dolphin, konqueror etc) don't register their shortcuts in 'keyboard shortcuts' - it would be good to have a centralised point for editing them all.

so go away and come back when you have done your homework.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 128.141.226.78] on August 30, 2008 11:39 PM
I totally agree with the last comment added, actually XFCE gives me everything i want in a very fast and functional way (Also gnome), in addition they are written in C, i don't understand how KDE4 was released adding a lot of fancy stuff and misses a lot of BASIC features.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 65.1.210.96] on August 31, 2008 12:11 AM
I'd like to see a complete set of icons. When I tried 4.1 half my icons were a rectangle with a question mark. Even stuff like menu categories.

I'm also disappointed at the lack of configurability in the desktop effects. After using compiz fusion, kwin4 seems very constrained. That goes for most of KDE4, though. I may just be dense, but I have trouble just getting things the color I want them to be. Based on the screenshots I'm seeing, most people seem to have similar problems (or else, everyone just loves a black kicker panel).

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.131.176.23] on August 31, 2008 12:28 AM
Seems to me from some of the comments that what people want from KDE 4.2 is: feature completeness. Releasing this thing half-baked was not a good idea, despite the FOSS notion of "release early, release often". That works for small stand alone components. That doesn't work with components which are critical such as the entire desktop environment. There's a reason commercial companies use something called "beta testing". I for one am not touching KDE 4.x until it's "feature complete" and most of the bugs are worked out. I expect that will be somewhere around release 4.5.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.62.100.49] on September 02, 2008 08:38 AM
I have to disagree... The problem is precisely that they have abandoned the FOSS way:

They didn't release soon you know? YES, IT WAS HALF BAKED but they were SO late that they could not possibly delay the release for the hundred time in a row, it would be way to much Windowish like for their audience.

The problem is they thought it was a good idea to rewrite everything from scratch based on the Qt4 migration. Do you realize what will happen to Linux if Linus and the kernel developers decided that sort of thing? Linux would probably disappear in a few years.

I am also a developer, I understand there is a real temptation to rewrite your stuff now that you are "cleverer that when you wrote that piece of code", but time tells you its a BAD idea most of the time (unless the task is short and straightforward or your software was really a bad crap that really does not payoff to maintain) because...
- It takes too much time.
- Sometimes you realize you were not as cleverer as you thought.
- And many times you miss real features that you should have taken into account while 'wasting' your developer time.

Gnome could also improve in many ways, but there's one thing they got right, stable release cycles that had allowed them to move away from CORBA and being the first to reach DBus (before KDE) without a major rewrite, for example. Yes, the Kioslaves of the kde 3.x series kicked Nautilus' ass hands down every time, but now KDE comes with this dolphin in their "want to be like (crapy) Vista" new attitude. Konqueror used to be my filebrowser, NOT my web client (for which I use firefox), dolphin is just a bad copy of Nautilus and/or windows folder views bad ideas.

The same goes for the Linux kernel, evolutionary design allows them to switch the kernel scheduler, memory management in the 2.6 series with users noticing just improvements instead major havoc and delays...

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 58.106.215.47] on August 31, 2008 01:30 AM
Only having to select shutdown once!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.118.186.107] on August 31, 2008 01:31 AM
My wish is for the "fork KDE!" whiners to quit posting pointless drivel and offer useful suggestions, or downgrade to 3.5

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.47.44.9] on August 31, 2008 02:33 PM
My wish is for the "fork KDE!" whiners to quit posting pointless drivel and offer useful suggestions

Well, my wish regarding this would be that they ask the two dozend of talented developers with plenty of free time and the several equally sized groups of non-coding contributors they obvouisly have available for developing a fork to consider applying for KDE SVN accounts.

I have to admit that I am quite puzzled that there would be such a large group of Free Software loving folk not yet contributing to any Free Software project, but if it takes a fork of KDE 3.5 to finally get them involved, go for it!

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Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 01, 2008 12:11 AM
There are a lot of free software folk who simply want free software to succeed and giving developers less that subtle hints as to how to achieve that.

So I don't write code, but I've admined the computer systems for a large company and understand what users want. Sometimes, feedback is more important than code.

KDE 3.x is an excellent DE. It isn't lack of code which is KDE 4's problem (in my opinion) but rather lack of focus, or lack of an understanding as to what a DE really SHOULD be, and what the vast majority of users (and not just the luser type) actually need.

Companies pay big money for that kind of information. I contribute to the OSS community by contributing what I think is sorely missing. An udnerstanding of the user base, of what the target audience wants (the unconverted to Linux), and what most peoples frustrations with computers are. (my job is dealing with this).

Address these issues and Linux will soar.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 125.63.159.29] on August 31, 2008 04:42 AM
I'm new to KDE, but I've really enjoyed using it so far - especially how well the KDE apps are integrated.

When I read about KDE 4, I was looking forward to it, despite the controversy... to me, any time a development team focuses on making the code tighter and more efficient - that's the way to go. Keep making improvements and make KDE as light and efficient as possible!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.54.19.246] on August 31, 2008 05:09 AM
The article has all good points. Can't help but mention though that one thing that really irks me about GNOME is how you have to either download themes, or hack config files just to configure the colour settings. What GNOME (and KDE4 too for that matter!) needs is a colour configuration dialog like KDE 3.5 has, where you get a representation of a desktop with a window on it where you click on the part of the representation you want to change the colour of, and then you select the colour you want that bit to be. Not this pull down menu of element names and no preview of your choices without hitting apply. KDE4 isn't nearly as terrible as GNOME in this regard, but it's a whole lot worse than KDE3.

Keyboard shortcuts!!! Cannot stress enough how aggravating shortcuts that just plain don't work are.

POLISH!! KDE 4.1 is still utterly rough around the edges. Panel (system tray moreso) icons are almost universally hideous, practically every one has a seriously ugly background surrounding it, they do not blend into the panel at all. You can shrink the panels smaller than KDE will render the icons on it. Polish the damn thing already.

If I select Shutdown, or Logout, or Reboot off of the Kmenu, don't ask me again if I want to Shutdown Reboot or Logoff in some retarded extra dialog.

Feature completeness (or lack thereof) is a major reason I'm still using KDE3. I want to be using KDE4 but it's still just too rough and beta quality for me.

If I'm harsh it's out of love.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.29.103.199] on August 31, 2008 07:53 AM
To go to the shutdown dialog quickly, press Ctrl-Alt-Del. That's one of the few keyboard shortcuts that actually works in KDE 4.1.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.177.64.119] on August 31, 2008 08:43 AM
I would still like to see the capability to have different icons on each virtual desktop. By default of course it would place each new icon on all virtual desktops, but there should be an option when choosing to create a new icon to place it on the virtual desktop of your choice, and the option for it to be on all desktops.

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Best improvement

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.95.172.35] on August 31, 2008 09:24 AM
The ultimate best improvement for KDE would be to get rid of all existing KDE code and import the source code of Gnome.

Seriously guys, what are you thinking? Everything KDE does, Gnome does ten times better. It even looks way better. KDE is obsolete and no amount of wishful thinking will ever make it relevant again.

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Re: Best improvement

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.209.163.49] on August 31, 2008 10:32 AM
Everything Gnome does, KDE does ten times better! See how easy it was to type that? That doesn't necessarily make it true though... Some of us prefer KDE over Gnome, and some of us actually like KDE4 and the way it is shaping up! You really should learn to respect that not everyone think the same, and what you personally love might be what others hate... (That doesn't mean I don't like Gnome, just that I like KDE) To each his own! Take care.

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Re: Best improvement

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 10.161.201.42] on September 04, 2008 04:02 PM
Gnome does so better that all its userbase uses k3b to burn CDs, uses digikam to manage their photos and uses amarok to manage their music library....LOL

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.79.162.226] on August 31, 2008 09:56 AM
"automatically pause desktop effects while 3-D or full-screen apps run"

This has been fixed, you should actualy read the two last comments of your bugreport ;-)
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155581
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165237

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 218.214.133.12] on August 31, 2008 12:11 PM
Auto-hide needs to be "very-fast" or "very-configurable", slow is an absolute "-pain-" ie: the usual default speed for auto hide is almost unusable...!

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Wish list: The Improvement for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.157.7.247] on August 31, 2008 12:48 PM
Easy peasy Lemon squeasy dump the 4.x series and get back to working on KDE 3.5.9 at least that is working correctly and reliably
then confine 4.x to the Alpha status that it is right now may be classable as beta by the time it reaches 4.7 or 8

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 93.112.117.172] on August 31, 2008 12:48 PM
Do you guys remember when GNOME went 2.0? Everyone hated it! It only became usable around 2.16, but now its a joy to use. I imagine the same think will happen with kde4.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.80.227.162] on August 31, 2008 01:57 PM
- Better multi-head support (for instance, the ability to move the application list bar to other screens was laking in 4.0)

- Usability improvements to network manager would also be nice

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.166.143.187] on August 31, 2008 02:27 PM
give us back desktop icons!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 80.200.9.181] on August 31, 2008 02:41 PM
I mis the quicklauncher from KDE3.

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.69.18.213] on August 31, 2008 03:20 PM
1. Drag to select multiple desktop icons. This should be a given.

2. Have an alternative to the Kickoff menu. *Personally* I think it's ugly and terrible to use - scrolling within a fixed sized menu is about the worst Vista feature they could've copied. Simple menus like Gnome are what I want.

3. Stop burying applications many levels deep in the menus. This might be one for the distros, but the way OpenSUSE organises apps, for instance, is frankly ridiculous.

4. Have one place to find all the preferences for the whole system. This has always been a problem in KDE for me. One preferences app for KDE and one for the rest of the system, but I never know which to go to.

5. I thought everything was Dolphin now, so how come the first icon I clicked launched the dreaded Konqueror to look at my files?

6. Improve the icons on the panel. This is just fit & finish, but some of them even have a square white background. It's a shame when so much effort has gone into the overall look.

KDE shows some nice touches and is very promising indeed. Right now, it provides lots of barriers for users to learn the environment, find their apps and configure their system. Dolphin is a massive leap forward, but it's not all good. Sorting out 2, 3 and 4 would improve things hugely IMO.

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Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.34.107.67] on August 31, 2008 04:10 PM
1. Drag to select multiple desktop icons. This should be a given.
* If you're using the Folder View plasmoid, this can be done. Set it to your desktop folder and be happy.

2. Have an alternative to the Kickoff menu. *Personally* I think it's ugly and terrible to use - scrolling within a fixed sized menu is about the worst Vista feature they could've copied. Simple menus like Gnome are what I want.
* Right click the k-menu icon and select "switch to classic menu". Your widgets must be unlocked to see this menu option

3. Stop burying applications many levels deep in the menus. This might be one for the distros, but the way OpenSUSE organises apps, for instance, is frankly ridiculous.
* Its a distro issue. Kubuntu, for example, puts most apps in the first level of each category, with overflow going into a second level.

4. Have one place to find all the preferences for the whole system. This has always been a problem in KDE for me. One preferences app for KDE and one for the rest of the system, but I never know which to go to.
* I'm fine with the unified System Settings control. Having not used SuSE, I'm tempted to say that this is a distro issue.

5. I thought everything was Dolphin now, so how come the first icon I clicked launched the dreaded Konqueror to look at my files?
* If you upgraded from 3.5, itd keep your file associations. If not, I'd hazard a guess that its your distro.

6. Improve the icons on the panel. This is just fit & finish, but some of them even have a square white background. It's a shame when so much effort has gone into the overall look.
* That's a bug with the freedesktop.org icon specification - KDE 4 icons are ARGB, while fd.org icons are RGB. There are messy hacks to fix this on the KDE end (instead of upstream in fd.org where they belong), and the community is trying to decide where to take it.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.57.172.213] on August 31, 2008 03:04 PM
For me there are certain apps that don't go in the right direction with their concept of usability:
- Konsole. Maybe a copy-mode split view is good for some concrete situations, but allowing both views to be independent makes more sense for me. There's a simple example of a good splitting system, allowing to have multiple tabs in each view, and switching from horizontal to vertical split, for example. It's called notepad++.
- Akregator. I started this wish http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122179 and for me it's a very good idea. It should be already working, but it's not. Why?
- Dolphin. Comparing the places system to the left folder filtering at konqueror it may look similar, but there's no link between current/closer place and the treeview. I can't believe that. This is one of the most impressive features in konqueror by far. You can focus on the subset of folders that you want, and you don't need to have visible a big-like-hell tree for the whole filesystem. Why this is not possible with dolphin??
And on the other side, why there's only a single split mode? What about allowing users to split each view as many times as (s)he wants? A very common situation is having the user organizing its files, and having more than 2 views is a good help many times. In the end we must remember what dolphin is: a file manager, so it would be nice for the user to manage files easier.
- Plasma. More types of panel would be interesting. Depending on your desktop layout sometimes you won't have enough with common side panels, so having other different types allowing you to add apps icons/launchers wherever in the middle of the desktop sounds great. The default desktop-panel-widget also has a very poor set of config options (no hiding, no transparency..).
A plasma manager allowing the user to load/save configs also looks great. You may want to switch from work mode to tv mode, for example, and this may simplify this task a lot.
And this is also related to a feature a posted previously: a visual map of plasmoids. If I want to modify a config I need to know which elements are in, and exactly where. Having a visual and simplified way to show plasmoids (only like plain boxes, using different colors for each one, for example) may deal with this. Of course right there you could add/remove/move/config plasmoids.
- Kickoff. Right now it autoswitchs tab once you keep the mouse over a new one for certain time. Why? I think forcing the user to click on it is not a problem, it's a good idea. Why do I have to "be careful" about the place where I keep the mouse pointer? Suddenly the tab changes, and I was not expecting this. Why??
- Amarok. Well.. everyone keeps waiting for v2 :)
- Multidesktop system. Here we are with a feature that has not been updated for some time, at least its concept. You may be able to use different background images for your virtual desktops (it seems a missing feature in 4.1), but in the end you only have a set of copies of your desktop. Why should I have the same set of panels or plasmoid config in every desktop? I could have a panel with certain development tools available in desktop 1, assuming it is my work desktop. For #2 we can think about the watch-tv desktop, so probably i will have a black background, and almost no more panels (I want to see the film and no more.. maybe we could keep there a desktop switcher), and so on. Imho this is and impressive advance for the multidesktop system (this should need more memory, i know.. but what about the usability benefits? In the end the user should be the one who should decide to use it or not, depending on his/hers needs and the amount of available memory).
- Window management. I don't want to start a fight between kwin and compiz visual effects here, but some simple actions look veeeery poor in 4.1. Simply think about how the alt-tab window looks like.

Regards

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 210.56.88.74] on August 31, 2008 03:20 PM
Polish. Little things like being able to change the font size on the time and seeing the date/day as a tooltip, adding launchers to a panel (how do you do this?), choosing a font color that actually allows an application dragged onto the desktop (not intuitive in itself) to be read by humans with a dark background, why must it show that menu so quickly for EVERY plasmoid (even the launchers), adding a system monitor that can monitor network traffic/memory/CPU for the panel, move the items in the panel with middle-click + drag, etc.

Also, it would be really nice if the developers could introduce an option for interacting with the desktop as a folder (the whole thing) with icons.

KDE 4 seems like it's got some promise to be a good desktop environment though. Some of the settings management involving the internet and single clicks really is very well done. In my opinion it is the initial phase of how do I do stuff with my new desktop that is the most putting off.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 69.68.125.47] on August 31, 2008 03:30 PM
Scoop up all the 3.5.x fork whiners and drop 'em off on a remote island.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.253.178.254] on August 31, 2008 04:15 PM
I've tried kde4.1 but came back to kde3.5 because of speed.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.79.162.226] on August 31, 2008 04:32 PM
"Kickoff. Right now it autoswitchs tab once you keep the mouse over a new one for certain time. Why? I think forcing the user to click on it is not a problem, it's a good idea. Why do I have to "be careful" about the place where I keep the mouse pointer? Suddenly the tab changes, and I was not expecting this. Why??"
go into the kickoff preferences and change it. It's realy easy.

"Multidesktop system. Here we are with a feature that has not bee..."
This is present since kde 4.0, it's called activity or something. There is that strange symbol on the desktop. You can zoom out with it, add a new activity and zoom into that. There you have individual plasmoids for each workspace

"- Window management. I don't want to start a fight between kwin and compiz visual effects here, but some simple actions look veeeery poor in 4.1. Simply think about how the alt-tab window looks like."
there are somthing like 4-5 different ALT-TAB effects from which you can chose from. Take the one you like(you can simply select another, right there where you choose the different Effects in the kwin preferences). If there is none that you like, make a wishlist item on bugs.kde.org. Probably mockup of the effect will be the best way to go.

"Also, it would be really nice if the developers could introduce an option for interacting with the desktop as a folder (the whole thing) with icons."
This is present in svn and will be in 4.2

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: carolinason on August 31, 2008 07:20 PM
I was a long time GNOME user, but it started to consume to much CPU. I switched to XFce and it is a very useful desktop and resource conservative as long as you don't load GNOME apps or Firefox. But XFce is GTK. However, I thought it loaded KDE apps quickly. I do a lot of MP3 editing with Kid3 and Amarok is my mp3 db player of choice. KDE 4 doesn't have these as native apps yet.

KDE 4.1 is a step forward in desktop for me, but I can't find a stable distro for it. I now use KDE 3.5.9 and will probably use this series until KDE 4 catches up. Funny how things work out. KDE is better at resources than GNOME and has more to offer than XFce. Yes, KDE 4 needs more functionality, but it is a BEAUTIFUL desktop and I would like to run it. I do use Okular and Ktorrent which are KDE 4 apps.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 200.107.58.161] on August 31, 2008 11:27 PM
IMO the best desktop feature is unique to Gnome- you can re-arrange the order of the windows in the task menu by dragging. I can't live without it now after discovering it one day by accident. Any other WM or desktop that does this?

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 212.187.194.74] on September 01, 2008 12:17 AM
Unfortunately not, I'm a KDE user, but I hate not being able to drag items on the taskbar, it bothers me a lot that My web browser isn;t always at the left (I always open it first but after a crash if I reopen it it's on the right)

Kinda obsessive in my case, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who want or need this

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 212.187.194.74] on September 01, 2008 12:12 AM
As for the fact that only one plasmoid is available for installationg from the "Ad Widgets" -> "From Internet..." dialog, that is because no-one is uploading scripted plasmoids to KDE-look yet, all of the official KDE developers are putting their plasmoids into the default set or "kdeplasma-addons", which should be available as a package for your distro, it is on Kubuntu, and contains an RSS reader.

Right now though there's not much documentation on scripting plasmoids (only C++ instructioncs so far, and python bindings aren't working properly in 4.1), but when this is fixed there illprobably be many more available.

A problem I can think of is that installing from KDE-look might install programs you can't run (due to not having Python/Ruby installed or not having the KDE bindings for these languages), so I'm hoping there will be a little "Python + PyKDE required for this plasmoid" in the dialog if you don't have it installed.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 122.52.141.15] on September 01, 2008 02:27 AM
KDE 4.x's goal of the desktop experience is impressive, a noble one. The comment of "Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186]" on September 01, 2008 12:02 AM, were mostly I agree with. You will enjoy only the DE after several hours of playing, after that, you will forget it or change themes, eyecandys etc. After all, you still need your work to get done(surf, docs, publishing, audio/video/graphics/3d Games) and the Desktop Experience _MUST_ _NOT_ interfere and the resources be made available for this in the top priority. Forget about Desktop effects, the audio/video/graphics/3d games MUST work as intended by the developers regardless of the DE.

Another problem is the versioning system of KDE, it's totally unacceptable to release the so-called stable version but half-baked. At least the beta releases must be ALPHA and must be for developers only, it even can't show the kmenu. And the current STABLE be labeled as BETA, in this way, users will not whine for its unstableness, unpolished and the lack of usability and all of you KDE developers's reasoning are totally VALID by saying, "IT IS BETA". Even most distros see the KDE 4.x as a preview technology to which I think they see KDE4 as not ready for production, even though you say its stable.

The weird thing is the slogan: "Don't look back..." But I keep on looking back at Gnome everytime I tried KDE 4.x a run.

God bless...

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 01, 2008 05:21 AM
KDE should not be trying to compete with Vista, but hold itself at arms length. Most people who will want the "Vista Experience" will use Windows, rather than Linux, as windows is the 'real deal'. Why make the OS look like another without the same capabilities? In other words, why would someone use an OS which is becoming more and more like Windows (and not be able to run this and that) instead of just running windows and be able run counter strike, etc?

KDE 3.x and GNOME 1.x were desktops which provided an easy to use environment without the trappings of Windows. It is the fact that Linux GUI's follow a different paradigm, which make them attractive and make Linux attractive. Being small, practical, powerful and out of the way, leaving more resources for YOUR stuff. A DE that doesn't harange the user or appear to 'needy'. Being able to get away from an ever shifting DE and ever increasing requirements and use software which is focused on the task it exists to solve, rather than use software which was written to be marketable.

KDE 4 is nice to play with, but to work with it offers nothing new. In fact, probably less than previous DEs.

By the way, I would really like to have seen a 'Kuake' style dropdown console. There are quake like dropdown console addons for KDE, where you press a hotkey combination and get a bash prompt drop down. Also, greater control over windows (AfterStep has maximize 80%, maximise 100%, Quit, Kill, etc). Old version of Gnome, or was it sawfish has "Destroy" to forcible kill an app that was misbehaving. Thats not in KDE ( Little things like this set Linux apart from windows) or even GNOME anymore. KDE does have the CTRL-ALT-ESC : destroy mechanism. Most of all, better intergration with existing Unix apps. Being able to use 'talk' to chat to other uses. KDE 3 did this, but room for improvement. Being able to shedule a job using "at" just by clicking on the calendar or clock or check the start menu for defunct entries or be easily able to script your own basic dialog boxes to do simple tasks.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.176.86.115] on September 01, 2008 04:02 AM
1. Make it at least as stable as KDE 3.5. 4.1 is more stable than 4.0 was, but that's not saying much. Things still crash too much for me to use KDE 4 as an everyday destkop. KDE 4.1 is still not nearly as stable as KDE 3.5 is.
2. Port KNetworkManager to KDE 4.
3. When I hit my laptop's volume up or volume down buttons, KDE 4.1 brings up the KDE 3.5 version of kmix.
4. Some of the plasmoids don't work at all. Others have graphical artifacts and/or font size and placement problems.

I expect at least as good of an experience as I currently have on KDE 3.5. Until I get that I am not going to use KDE4 even though it is currently installed on my computer.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 136.186.246.14] on September 01, 2008 05:23 AM
I still cant believe that there is no default session feature in KDE4.1, i'm still stuck with getting back to the session i had las time i logged out; not really usefull....

The suggestions listed here are very relevant BTW, specially the 3D pausing, i shave to log off and into KDE 3.5 to be able to play any fullscreen game.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 200.83.9.182] on September 01, 2008 05:56 AM
A fair share of your wishes is already addressed.

1. More Plasmoids, a RSS news reader, KDE-Plasma-NetworkManager. You can have all of them, now. They are alpha, but you can actually have them, at least, if you are using Fedora. Fire up a terminal and type this:

# rpm -ivh http://www.floriansievert.de/linux/repo/phobos-release-9-1.fc9.noarch.rpm
# yum install kde-plasma-rssnow kde-plasma-networkmanager

There are more plasmoids you can try. Try them all! They are the best of kde-look.org, compiled, for you... if you are a Fedora user, at least.

2. Unredirection of fullscreen windows. This is already fixed, along with a bug that made KWin use 20% of your dual core CPU if you had VSync enabled. I don't know if the fixes will be scheduled for KDE 4.2... or if they would hit KDE 4.1.1 first (and be with us earlier than expected).

3. Kickoff-various-complaints. Kick Kickoff off your panel and, with the repo above installed in your Fedora system, do this:

# yum install kde-plasma-lancelot

It will work better for you.

4. Grid, panel autohiding. They are all coming for 4.2

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.146.33.39] on September 01, 2008 10:00 AM
sheesh.. these morons that compare a X.5 release with a Y.1 and expect them to be at the same level of stability, functionality, features etc do not have a clue. They should rip their own arms off and hit themselves on the head with the wet ends until they get a clue.
The KDE developers have a finite number of hands and time. More than half the features whinged about in these forums I've never heard of or used or used more than once. I think some people have more time on their hands than they know what to do with especially those that whinge about theming etc.
If you want something that is freely given be patient, constructive instead of destructive or get your hands dirty. Stop sniping from the side lines as it makes you look more like a troll.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.25.223.106] on September 01, 2008 10:21 AM
Make it stable, make it work reliably. Then go find some usability expert and listen what he has to say about KDE 4.1. He (or she) will probably know better what is really necessary and what is useless. I wonder when linux users will finally understand that gui is not about useless effects - it's about usability.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 200.80.237.98] on September 01, 2008 01:08 PM
Discard those horrible, hideous folder markers in Kate 3.0.x to its previous form in 2.5.x

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 122.52.141.15] on September 01, 2008 03:03 PM
In reply to the message below, I say.
The KDE4 developers need not to release KDE as stable say 4.0 or 4.1 and 4.2 but still unusable. You should label the software beta if it is beta quality. Stable if it is usable for a long period without restarting X so often. You lied to the public in the first place, and users will expect a stable desktop, but what you've got is an alpha released(labeled as BETA) and beta(that you said a stable). Free and be patient, CORRECT logic, but people will buy things if the work will be done for them. NOBODY will wait for their relatives to give him a free t-shirt so that he can troll outside, NO he should buy that thing so that he can enjoy trolling ASAP w/o ...._waiting_... so patiently anyone from his relatives to give him a shirt he needs. So we keep looking back. And do not expect Windows users to not look back. Anyway KDE 4.1 is closer to stable for now . The KDE team should at least released 4.1 as 4.0 beta1, beta2, beta3 etc. then 4.2 as 4.0 stable/ready for production use.

Nevertheless, I applaud the KDE developers for their work. But do not expect me not to look back.
I am an end-user, the only thing I can contribute is to whine but with good reasoning as possible.


Quote:
" Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.146.33.39] on September 01, 2008 10:00 AM
sheesh.. these morons that compare a X.5 release with a Y.1 and expect them to be at the same level of stability, functionality, features etc do not have a clue. They should rip their own arms off and hit themselves on the head with the wet ends until they get a clue.
The KDE developers have a finite number of hands and time. More than half the features whinged about in these forums I've never heard of or used or used more than once. I think some people have more time on their hands than they know what to do with especially those that whinge about theming etc.
If you want something that is freely given be patient, constructive instead of destructive or get your hands dirty. Stop sniping from the side lines as it makes you look more like a troll."

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.202.244.170] on September 01, 2008 09:52 PM
For some reason or another, I've used Kubuntu and KDE since 4.1 was released in ppa. It's the most wonderful desktop environment I've ever seen! Visualy pleasing out of the box, fast, easy-to-use, and with plenty of hints that more is likely to come!

Could it be because it's made by people who are driven by passion as compared to someone who is driven by HIG?

Big thanks goes to all KDE developers!!!

Regards,

Erik

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 69.169.154.199] on September 01, 2008 11:41 PM
I don't see what all of the fuss is about. Software development takes time, end of story. The KDE team decided to release early in order to get a wider test base and user feedback - which is exacly what they have gotten. So what if it isn't perfect yet. It will slowly get there, and when it does, Linux will be that much stronger for it.

I am a developer and prefer light-weight environments such as Fluxbox. However, the great majority of desktop users enjoy glossy, flashy and easy-to-use environments. If KDE 4.x is not yet up to your standards... don't use it. Wait 6 months and try again. Or get onto every forum you can find and troll about how bad it is and make yourself look like a dork. The nature of free software is evolution. We use software that is useful to us, and when we find something better, we use it. And hopefully these projects get better over time. If you want to stick to the Microsoft approach of release once every X years and hope that it is polished, then stick with Microsoft. But in the world of FOSS, we tend to ride the waves as they build.


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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 02, 2008 12:28 AM
""However, the great majority of desktop users enjoy glossy, flashy and easy-to-use environments.""

Err, no. A small number of users called developers and tweakers, do, everyone else just wants something simple because they launch the program they turned the computer on for as soon as the DE finishes loading. Face it, 'eye candy' appeals to people who don't use a DE for it's intended purposes. Mostly to people who just like to play with computers and discover more and more eye candy SFX than actually use the computer. This kind of answers the question why Linux doesn't take more of a desktop share. Most people use the computer as a means of solving a task, and not using it for the sake of using one, as I think many Linux fans might do. The point is that GNOME and KDE could have done wonders by refining GnoRPM or KPackage (RPM installers that come with modern distros are awful, awful, awful and Linux still lacks a good GUI). KDE 4 should have the ability to change colours like KDE 3 does. It's such a basic feature. Windows could do it back in 1995. Keyboard shortcuts might be useful too. It's all well and good to try and make a glossy DE, but having Photoshop and Counter strike and the ability to easily install software on Linux on a simple IceWM Desktop is going to be far more appealing than tranparent and wobbling windows on a machine that can't run Photoshop.

Lastly, KDE 4 will become the default desktop for a lot of new distros and as such, most people won't be able to revert to KDE 3.x (it's not easy to do)

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.62.100.49] on September 02, 2008 09:24 AM
You miss the point,
KDE4 misses the FOSS 'release soon release often' which in reality includes the hidden phrase "Don't rewrite you stable code base from scratch, instead do it little by little".

KDE4 is a step in the M$ way of doing things: plan a release date and the delay "ad infinitum" (KDE4 was originally planed for like 1 or 2 years ago, if you think this is less the M$ delays you are right but M$ does change more that 'just the GUI' as well), deliver unfinished stuff (even M$ does not do it so much as the KDE 4.0 release), and make you state of the art fast as lightning machine look a slow slug just like Vista does.

True that some people like effects, and true that most of the time you get tired of them soon. I like the effects but I like more the meaning of having these effects, having compiz like stuff, even if you may switch it off at times, means that 3D is not just a weird options for some Linux geeks but that it will be build into most linux distros allowing for then to be ready to play games out of the box: Yes, compiz alikes slow down your googleearth a bit or your games quite a lot, but now your desktop is 3D ready and you are using your X's 3D ready driver, its easier to switch compiz off than to have to start testing glxgears/glxinfo to see if you have a 3D capable driver, install it and then run your game.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 121.96.202.37] on September 02, 2008 03:19 AM
i don't like the new Dolphin visually even the old one. But the latter is better cos it has line separators. Now, there's too many gray spaces all over the place. It really doesn't much the slick and crispy Plasma Desktop. The KDE team should have overhauled its looks to much Plasma..

Oh..i hate Okular too..Dull UI seems to be a KDE syndrome. It has no cure, apparently.
And if by chance Amarok team read this, REMOVE vertical TABS!

Only Plasma is the very nice thing that has come to KDE. It's very SLICK! I really like it!:)

I appreciate all the hard you've done, but please for this time around, IMPROVE your UI...

THANKS!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 121.96.202.37] on September 02, 2008 03:25 AM
"the great majority of desktop users enjoy glossy, flashy and easy-to-use environments"

Everything else is there except the one mentioned above. I hope Linux community realizes this!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 121.96.202.37] on September 02, 2008 03:36 AM
"please for this time around, IMPROVE your UI..."

+1

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 98.226.208.56] on September 02, 2008 04:20 PM
Decent multiple monitors support. Twinview on nvidia is unusable at the moment in kde4.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 209.190.168.98] on September 02, 2008 08:08 PM
"Make Konsole Bookmarks Work" -- Try to create a bookmark for an ssh session like "ssh -1 -l pix 10.1.1.1" This was horribly broken, then kind of fixed, and now is horribly broken again. I'll stick to shell scripts in ~/bin for now I guess.

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Natural progress

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.8.148] on September 02, 2008 09:17 PM
For any desktop environment and any OS there will allways be wishlists! KDE 4.1 runs well on my installations but implementation varies with the distros. If your distro is not up to it yet, don't blame KDE. The comparisations to Vista still makes no sense to me. KDE 4.1 is far more useable than Vista ever will be. And KDE has been improved with lower usage of resources - not with higher demand like Vista. I've used KDE 4.1 on 700mhz celeron with 256mb ram and 4mb GPU - not fast - but It works (KDE says 1ghz and 512 mb Ram) - which IS sufficient! Reading KDE blogs is truly enyoyable: Enthusiasm and progress on a daily basis. Koffice and Amarok 2.0 are indeed promising and the Kontactsuite is great (as soon as settings become 100% persistent).

When it comes to GUI appearance and functionality KDE 4.1 is the first desktop environment I've uset that doesn't really need total transformation. All Gnomedistros I've used needed the full works to be decent. Same goes with KDE 3.5.x and XP/Vista and to a certain extent OSX. Linux finally has it's own graphical expression that is competitive. No need for OSX/Vista lookalikes anymore.

Still moaning about KDE Alpha/Beta/4.0/4.1? Get over it! Or even better: Get over yourself!

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Re: Natural progress

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 02, 2008 11:57 PM
With XP and the awful Vista, you can change to a classic windows style GUI very, very easily. Vista's high requirements are due to the entire OS (which as we know, Linux is far leaner), not just the destop environment. Remember, that Vista is an entire OS, whereas KDE is ONLY the DE part. So 1GHz to run it is not acceptable because the OS itself doesn't have such high demands. All that 1GHz is KDE whereas for Vista, is an aggregate of slow OS components. And I think those who say "computers are fast enough anyway" are the worst type of developers. People buy faster computers so they can run their programs faster, and not have those resources THEY (not the OOS & MS developers) paid for eaten up by a bloated OS and GUI's. Remember, that the kernel, libraries, GUI are part of the computers OS system, and not "applications". Therefore, for a computer to have to run at 1GHz, just to operate, is a bit like a car that eats litres of fuel, just to idle the engine. It is MS's scam in thinking that people should have to upgrade their computers for the sake of the OS and not for the software they plan to run on it. It's disappointing to see this cancerous idea in the Linux world. "Progress" like this negates the advantages of moving away from MS Windows.

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Re(1): Natural progress

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.136.166] on September 03, 2008 10:29 AM
Disregarding licences, privacy and closed code Window's problem IS the close integration between the various segments of the OS. The jacking policy between Msoft and Intel is basicly a lame duck (finally).

Although the Linux part of a GNU/Linux could indeed be lean, many distros activates tons of unneeded services by default. Good thing for a troublefree start for a new user, but bad for resource management. This is in fact a common "issue" between XP/Vista and Linux distros. Therefore tuning of the system itself should be a priority before addressing the Desktop Environment. Next one up is to install only what the user need - avoid duplication of libraries and applications if at all possible. Many applications are resourcehungry. OpenOffice is one, Firefox is another. Excessive services, and duplication of applications and libraries is something that should be addressed by "any user" irrespective of DE. Almost forgot to mention that unneeded drivers are installed by many "userfriendly" distros.

Then comes the Desktop Environment.
If the hardware is limiting to the DE when everything else is tuned it's time to optimise the DE. One does NOT need to use all the effects. Switch them off! Although some of them are actually useful. If users restrict themselves to the effects and functions that are useful to them it IS absolutely possible to run a DE such as KDE 4.1 rather lean. It's the distro or the user (or their neglect) that actually bloats a DE. On my previous machine (fairly standard with TL56/Go7200/1gb) I used Gnome/Ubuntu and it really made sense to optimise everything from DE to services and drivers. I took XFce for a spin and it was a great experience in many ways.

But still KDE 4.1 was a better solution. Why? Appearance is certainly a issue as I feel no need to alter anything significant. At application level the GUI's of applications suits me or could very easily be modified to my taste - (I prefer a low blingfactor and high usability). But the real important part is the obvious Koffice/Amarok/Kontact/Nepomuk/Dolphin/Okular/etc potential for seemless interaction. Productivity through improved workflow. This is the area where KDE 4.X wil excel in the future. And that's the main reason that made me switch from Gnome to KDE 4.1. Certainly KDE 4.X will go through an evolution - any application, OS or Desktop Environment will. In the coming months the porting of applications will proceed with good speed (Just look at the enthusiasm among the KDE developers!)

I used the 700mhz/1ghz as examples (I'm not saying it's perfect HW) and look forward to see what KDE could do on the Nokia Surfboards. Trolltech also promises improved graphicsperfomance in their next version of QT and KDE continues looking for code optimisation.

If you prefer XFce/Gnome/Enlightment/no GUI/DE or whatever there is nothing with KDE 4.1 that forces you to change the way you prefer to work. But hey - users are different, have different needs and different preferences. Gnu/Linux is more or less whatever you want it to be.

I find this article to be a good one as it attempts to turn focus towards merits and facts. Constructive critsism i a good thing. Having used KDE 4.1 since it appeared as beta I strongly disagree with the "bloatstatements" that keeps coming. It simply makes me question whether such statements are made on basis of screenshot-evaluation or someone not taking a objective approach to the thing. Learn it and use it with objectivity for some time first. Sure - it's not everyone's cup of tea, but what is?

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Re(2): Natural progress

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 04, 2008 04:11 AM
I know no one is forcing me to use it. Personally, like many others, I would prefer KDE 3.5 and its a shame it will be obsoleted soon. However, I'm putting forward my arguments on behalf of many others who I have introduced to Linux, who wanted to use it because of what it does (licensing issues are rarely problematic for most users).

My PC is 700MHz, 1/2 gig of ram. A DE shouldn't be slow, not even at half that speed. Gnome 1.4 isn't and its got most features that KDE 4.1 has. But thats another issue.

My argument is based on my opinion that Linux needs to carve out its own niche, and provide it's own pardigm. Apple provides utterly seamless interaction between programs, it's really impressive. Windows does this OK. You cant have your cake and eat it too. The Linux community needs to decide between a techie OS where the user remains in tight control of the entire computing environment they create for themselves, or another MacOSX/Windows, which is more an appliance, abstracted approach. IF you make Linux appear the latter, even though it can still be a techie, you lose out because you draw the wrong userbase and you'll have to further and further 'dumb down' the OS to accomodate these people. OR, you can keep Linux as a proper computing OS, powerful, slim, adaptable and lean and lose out the 'mom and pop' Windows users who think a transparent dialog box = bettter system, but retain the appeal to those who really do want to move away form MS, for the right reasons.

I believe my criticism is constructive because from my experience, it seems that develops, while good at their craft, often overlook what they are writing software FOR. KDE 4 was really a stark reminder of the overall lack of focus. If this was Window Maker, or some other minor project, it would have been no issue. But KDE, whether it likes it or not, represents to a large degree, ALL that Linux encompasses, even though technically its not true.

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Re(1): Natural progress

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.130.236.207] on September 27, 2008 01:47 PM
<quote>Remember, that Vista is an entire OS, whereas KDE is ONLY the DE part.</quote>
<quote>Remember, that the kernel, libraries, GUI are part of the computers OS system, and not "applications". </quote>

You are totally wrong with your comment!

Linux is the OPERATING SYSTEM.... yes, the monolith kernel is the operating system.... Libraries, GUI, Applications are not part of Operating System unless you embedded them to OS itself. Monolith kernel is alone the Operating System. The Microkernel is not alone the Operating System.
Microkernel in kernel mode + OS services (Filesystem, Networkprotocols, Drivers) what runs on Protected threads on usermode, are together the Operating System. Monolith kernel runs alone in kernel space in supervisor mode and all OS services are tightly integrated to it, thats why it is "monolith kernel".

In short, Operating System is that part of software what runs in kernel mode or in supervisor mode. None of the applications, GUI's etc are part of Operating System unless they are bundled to it's services. In Windows 2000 (NT5) part of the Graphical GUI (Windowmanager) was part of Operating System because it was running in kernel space in one of OS services. On Windows NT6 (Vista) the Graphical subsystem was completly removed from OS services to own process so the Operating System did not anymore include the graphical subsystem.
On Windows 95, Microsoft bundled parts of Internet Explorer to OS. And that was reason why there was so damn many security holes because when you found one security hole in browser, you got straight to OS level to execute your code. On other Operating Systems like Linux or FreeBSD, there has never be a web browser part as OS. It has always be as normal application running outside of Operating System. Sandboxed. This way real UNIX and *nix OS's has protected itself, keeping the code clean and only the important code there. And thats why there has be long discussion should the Operating system be structured as monolith (monolith kernel) or spread structure (microkernel) what allows more protection for every OS service what makes OS and whole system more stable.

Read these to understand what is the Operating System. Then you will understand what Linux and GNU/Linux really is and what is Software System.

http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

Do not spread the Microsoft/Ubuntu marketing that Operating System is everything what you see or get when you install Vista or Ubuntu. And do not spread political religion about GNU/Linux "Operating System" either.

The Linux OS just needs very little from computer to run, but all the applications needs more CPU, just like libraries etc needs more HD space...

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2 - nepomuksearch soon

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.207.194.89] on September 02, 2008 11:27 PM
I want the ability to tag every file - without the due to index the content of the file, I think it will be possible with dolphin and nepomuk. And at the same time I want to find the tagged file in dolphin or konqueror, without strigi or beargle. I think in the beginning of 2008 there have been nepomuksearch. Now I only read about strigi and indexed files. That is not what I want and I do not want to tag files, if I don't know how to find the tagged files.

Sorry, English is not my native language.
Greeating

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 189.15.184.102] on September 03, 2008 12:38 AM
Make Condensed font family like dejavu sans condensed work...

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 125.212.86.185] on September 03, 2008 09:05 AM
As of now there two things in KDE i want to change/improve.

1. the Kickoff Menu. It's ugly, there's no denying.
2. the Dolphin's 'Places side-bar'. I wish I had the control to choose the icons' size regardless of the side-bar's length.

So far everything else is fantastic! Thanks!

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 125.212.86.185] on September 03, 2008 09:11 AM
The system tray's flickering behavior whenever an icon pops up really annoys me.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 172.18.107.64] on September 03, 2008 05:11 PM
I wish a real organization at menu. Like Gnome. I´d used KDE for years, but after I used gnome, I couldn´t come back to KDE. The menu organization is simple horrible. While the KDE won´t organize the menu, at less like Gnome, I won´t back to KDE.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 189.27.225.80] on September 03, 2008 11:22 PM
Why everybody climbs on the roof and shout: KDE 4 is missing XYZ feature! It sucks! We should fork KDE 3.5!
First: Nobody is forced to use KDE. There is room for Gnome, XFCE, WindowMaker... They all have their audiences.
Second: Wanna fork KDE 3.5? As stated before (http://www.osnews.com/thread?321054), just do it!
People love to complain, but they only have cheap talk...
I really think that it's better to have a revolutionary DE that catches up on features gradually than stuck forever with the same old DE.
Do you really think that Gnome or XFCE will be alive in 20 years? Someday they'll have to take their chances too, or fade...

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Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 04, 2008 12:05 AM
Most people who use a distro which defualts to KDE will be using KDE, and thats why what KDE does is important. It will give many, many people the impression that this is what LINUX is. Most new Linux converts wont be installing other DE's straight away, and nor should the expected to be.

Secondly to address the comment
"I really think that it's better to have a revolutionary DE that catches up on features gradually than stuck forever with the same old DE"
What is so revolutionary about it? It's missing basic features that existed even in Windows 95. Features that ironically, even the older version of KDE has. Is gimmicky visual effects what passes as important developments these days? And yes, us whiners do have a right. Many Linux users have put a lot of effort into increasing awareness of Linux to others, and increasing the userbase. But if it's following the path of MS, then what's the point? There are talented programmers, but I think that the two main DE's show that developers might be good at writing code, but OSS developers are not goot at focusing on the final product, and its purpose.

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Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.132.229] on September 04, 2008 01:44 AM
First of all: My apologies for being totally off topic - wishlists are about dreams - not rants.

Could you please elaborate EXACTLY how KDE 4.x is following the path of Microsoft??
It can't be resource consumption - KDE 4.x uses less resources than KDE 3.5.x whereas Microsoft is getting more demanding on resources.
It can't be GUI logic - KDE 4.x is way more dynamic, flexible and logical than any MS GUI
It can't be Workflow - KDE 4.x has a far better foundation for that

What's wrong with good looks? They have reduced resource consumption simultanously! Further decrease will come with the next version of QT.
Which missing features are left for dead - and not work in progress for later arrival? (And please don't confuse KDE 4.x with 3rd party KDE apps such as Koffice and Amarok.)

Sorry, but if you believe that KDE 4.1 is without substance and with make-up splattered to camouflage an empty shell I'm afraid you've missed the point. Totally.

KDE 4.x will provide a major increase of the Linux userbase - you claim that's your objective so what's the hazzle? KDE 4.x is not a Linux exclusive DE. It's for virtually any *nix system and will include OSX and Windows. What exactly is the purpose of the final product? (Assuming that the final product is a piece of hardware with some software installed that actually works and is used for something.) You have to bear in mind that not everyone uses their machines the way you do. Neither do they use it the way I prefer. Usability is important to a huge number of existing and potential users. What I do not understand is: If it does not cater for your needs - why do you use it or why do you want to use it?

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Re(2): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 04, 2008 03:55 AM
Less resources? OK, then why did I have to wait 20 - 30 seconds everytime I changed the widget look, while KDE was 'updating configuration' or whatever.

KDE was immensely bloated to begin with, so saying it's using less doens't mean much really. Compare it with every other DE available (aside from GNOME) and it still comes out very heavy. The system requirements are still much higher than what would be reasonable for a Linux DE and not swift on hardware which should otherwise be perfectly capable of running Linux. Not everyone uses the machine the way you and I do, and nor should they. However, it doesn't serve to write a product FOR THE PURPOSES OF WINING PEOPLE OVER. Microsoft add razzle and dazzle, NOT to convert people from other OS's, but to convert them from previous versions of their own software. Microsoft want windows users to upgrade to another windows, so they CAN'T offer a different computing environment. All they can do is offer fluff. Linux is different, because we can offer to the world what MS cant, namely, a totally different way of doing things. Do we want to "defeat MS". I don't. It would be like the pope holding satanic rituals to win over satanists to Christianity. You dont 'convert' people over to your side, by moving to them and becoming that which you sought to move people away from.

I keep in mind why I, and many others I know moved to Linux in the first place. It was NOT extra controls on icons, or plasmoids, or other effects. It was the absence of such stuff. It was the freedom to use your own computing resources for your own purposes. If Linux developers want to win over simple minded Windows users who just want gloss and novelty and everything done the windows way, then I may as well use Windows.

The desperate attempt to get the MASSSES of windows users will kill OSS. The more you emulate what MS or Apple does, the LESS likely people will want Linux. Why buy a toyota that looks like an Audi and costs as much as an Audi, when you can get a real Audi instead? I couldn't care if MS remains more popular than Linux, I'd prefer it that way, because it would mean that Linux remains the BETTER OS. Linux users might always be a minory, but thats a GOOD thing because we can use a GOOD OS and not have to adapt the way we prefer to use our computers just to get 'more bums on seats'.

My point is this, there is a difference between a fringe OS, and a recognised alternative (but not dominant), like Apple. Linux should always be an alternative, and not just a clone with a different engine. You want to attract people to it for the right reasons. Linux needs to edge out a niche, not try to occupy another existing one. Apple does this well because it offers a unique, "apple" way of doing things that is familiar to its user base. It does not try to become windows for the sake of taking over.

Likewise, anyone that develops software like KDE, or GLIBC, or GNOME or distro management tools, should do so with the understanding that their work is going to define Linux, not the Linux kernel itself or other lesser known projects, like Window Maker or gtktalog.

KDE 4 just sends the wrong message. It says that looks overrule function, that marketability overrules functionalist. It says to the user "you will provide what system resources I need". Linux users are Linux users precisely because they don't want to be at the 'mercy' of others, regardless of whether those others are in a corporation or home FOSS developers. It makes not difference to most users. If they want freedom, they want freedom to do things THEIR way, which is usually the way they know, with the resources they have.

This means you dont decide to change the way the start menu works because you deem it as such. You dont put unnecessary resource consuming effects because you think the user needs to see them. You dont dictate to the user what system you think they should own (they decide that based on the apps, and a DE is NOT an application, its an app enabler).

There should be ONE system which gives this freedom, which allows people to not have to upgrade their machines all the time, when all they do is surf the net and write e-mails (do you really need 1GHz for the net?) To not have to relearn things, or have someone else decide what their computing environment should change to.

A lot of experienced computer users want this. MS doesn't provide this at all, you have to constantly work just ot maintain the OS and use it. There should be an alternative.

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Re(3): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.170.134] on September 04, 2008 10:51 AM
It seems to me that you really want to use KDE 4.x but are unable due to your own hardware-restrictions? Well, I'm sorry it doesn't work for you, and if your setup works better for your usage I can't see any reason whatsoever for using it. Why not stick with what works for you??

Immensly bloated to begin with? What version are we talking about? Did you test it before they really started optimising the code? From 4.0 until 4.05/6.x there was a significant improvement in speed, and it improved further after that. 4.1 runs far better, and 4.1.1 also improves speed in some areas. Improvements are demonstrated, announced and expected as soon as they base KDE 4.x on the next version of QT. It's for the distros or the user to decide what functionality they install and want to use beyond the bare minimum requirements of the DE. On the other hand - when they release "a demo" so to speak it is rather obvious that they want to show users some of the things you can do with it?

If you don't want to use plasmoids - why use it?? My machine is fully capable to run any aspect of KDE 4.x - but I don't use the Plasmoids because they are not needed by me (for now). Others find them useful - that doesn't affect me at all. You don't like the menus - switch to the classic menu - it's there!!) You don't want effects - switch them offf! You want a clean and tidy minimalistic system - install one and set it up properly. You don't want to learn new things - stick with what you got! If all this fuzz is about the menu/plasmoids/effects you REALLY missed the point about KDE 4.x.

You want to advocate GNU/Linux but fight progress - you want freedom - but want to restrict it to one system. That system should be in accordance to your preferences (screw the rest) - What kind of freedom is that? Freedom not to learn? NOBODY but YOU decides what you install on your machine(s). By installing and testing KDE 4.x (4.04 or earlier by the looks of it) you have exercised choice provided to you by KDE. It has not been forced upon you in any way.

You don't need 1ghz for Emails/Surfing, but you DO NEED a certain minimum to enter sites that are using Flash or Java. It might come as a surprise - others use their machines for more than simple Internet usage. You are right about one thing - many experienced users prefer a 100% minimalistic OS and DE. Most of them have the sense to stick with such setup. You state there should be an alternative: There are dozens. KDE 4.x is one - and a darn good one too - although not for your preferences. I simply can't think of one good reason for why you tested it in the first place? It makes no sense whatsoever. According to your statements you have tested it - KDE can't be blamed for a bad choice made by you?

You are ri

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Re(4): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 05, 2008 03:34 AM
I would like to use KDE 4, yes, because I know I eventually might have to install it. Hardware restrictions are not an issue, I could buy a new PC if I wanted to. Thing is, I dont need to. I think many OSS advocates misunderstand freedom, or what real freedom is. Freedom is freedom FROM, not freedom TO. Thats the kind of freedom which drew me, and many others I've introduced to Linux. Freedom FROM having MS dictate how we use our systems. Freedom FROM having other people through their own preferences dictate how our PC's should look, or how long we use the hardware we paid good money for. The freedom to look at the source code and modify it isn't as relevant to most users as it is assumed to be. Freedom from other peoples opinions is. The fact that in some respects its technically superior and more powerful, is a bonus.

Linux's strength comes from it's freedom FROM having corporations (or anyone for that matter) engineer your computing 'experience' so as to make you a tied consumer. Freedom from having someone else decide how new the computer you run should be, or how much money you should spend, or when you retire your hardware. The GUI, being an integral part of the OS, should give as much of this freedom as possible. That is, the user, by choosing to run KDE, remains in control. It works the same, it runs the same, nothing is sacrificed unknowingly when upgrading. No decision is made on behalf of the user. If this was a different project, say a forked KDE called ultraKDE, there would have been no issue, because when you install a different DE, you EXPECT it to change the way your computer operates. The user makes the conscious choice to change. But if one upgrades KDE, and finds that their performance now suffers, that the menu works completely differently, then one has had, unwillingly, a different environment thrust upon them. Yes, it can all be turned off, modified (I didnt know how to get the menu back to the old style, no documentation) but if you dont know how, its a hassle.

However, all this is someone making a decision that the Linux user should make. The user should be free from the developers of software deciding on his/her behalf what is best for them, or what resources the user should invest in order to experience a particular developers vision. Apple doesn't offer this. The MS world doesn't offer this. Linux can, easily. However, all people focus on is the source code, as if nothing else mattered except access to source. RMS is a bit of a fool in this respect. If KDE 3 was closed source, I wouldn't care, most people wouldn't.

I'm not suggesting at all that I should decide how DE's operate. I'm just saying that from my perspective, it is a BIG mistake to change the requirements significantly of a DE, or make decisions on behalf of users as to how they interact with it. Especially when it means you REMOVE something that people want. That will make Linux lose it's appeal to the very people who benefit most from it. Freedom to choose, is also freedom NOT to choose. The freedom FROM I mentioned earlier. You can offer both. You can offer yet another brand of toothpaste, but many will want the freedom of NOT having to change, and continue with the toothpaste they are happy with. Freedom from choice.


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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 98.243.64.150] on September 06, 2008 06:30 PM
I'd really like to see the "centered maxpect" option come back for the desktop wallpaper slideshow. My wallpapers are distorted.

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free games

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 88.244.61.189] on September 08, 2008 03:48 PM
You can rate each game here Free games http://www.iplayfreegames.net . We hope to get top games only and hope that you will also give us some good games as you can submit a game of your choice and a game that you like, we hope to provide you with non-stop excitement and hope that when you are bored you will come to iplayfreegames.net

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.31] on September 12, 2008 10:49 AM
11 Include an Kbluetooth4 by default!
12 Where NetworkManager for KDE4??

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 78.176.55.7] on September 13, 2008 04:59 PM
if you launch a full-screen 3-D game, desktop effects aren't needed while the game is running. In that instance, desktop effects should be paused until the program has closed. Even if you are running a 3-D game that isn't full screen in an active window, desktop effects may still hamper performance, so they should be disabled while it's running.You will be able to rate each game that you Play games http://www.iplaygames2.com . We hope to provide top games only and hope that you will also give us some good games as you can submit a game of your choice and a game that you like
True that some people like effects, and true that most of the time you get tired of them soon. I like the effects but I like more the meaning of having these effects, having compiz like stuff, even if you may switch it off at times, means that 3D is not just a weird options for some Linux geeks but that it will be build into most linux distros allowing for then to be ready to play games out of the box: Yes, compiz alikes slow down your googleearth a bit or your games quite a lot, but now your desktop is 3D ready and you are using your X's 3D ready driver, its easier to switch compiz off than to have to start testing glxgears/glxinfo to see if you have a 3D capable driver, install it and then run your game.

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Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.130.236.207] on September 27, 2008 01:51 PM

For all to understand that Linux is the Operating System and KDE(1/2/3/4) is not part of Operating System or either is none of GNU project tools...

http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

If you want to discuss about KDE4 speed and resource needs... discuss about those. Do not talk about Operating Systems if you do not understand that Linux (the monolith kernel) is the Operating System and not just a kernel. Same thing does not apply to Microkernel.

KDE4 is fast, powerfull and still lacks some important features. But it is just in the beging of the big porting. KDE 3 was not great and best either when 3.0 - 3.1 was released. After 3.2 it started to develop to be better and until 3.4 hit the road, it was got that what was waited from it. Now let KDE4 develop and do not bash it down for political misbelieveing and fanboyism...!

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