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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

By Jeremy LaCroix on July 29, 2008 (9:00:00 AM)

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KDE 4.1 was finally released to the public today. After all the controversy since the release of KDE 4.0, I'm happy to announce that KDE 4.1 simply rocks.

KDE 4.1 packages are available for Kubuntu and several other popular distributions. If there are no prebuilt binaries yet for your distro of choice, you can compile the software from the available source packages. A live CD image is also available should you wish to try the new desktop without altering your existing installation.

The introduction of KDE 4 marked the introduction of the new Plasma desktop, which provides not only the panel that you interact with, but also widgets (or "plasmoids") that extended the desktop further. In KDE 4.1, one of the most welcome changes to Plasma is the return of multiple and resizable panels from KDE 3. Now you can configure your panels by clicking on the Plasma icon (by default it's on the right edge of the panel), which brings up a series of sliders for adjusting the panel's height and position. Also within this configuration control is the return of a way to reposition panel contents by simply grabbing objects with your mouse and pulling them to where you'd like them.

One of the most controversial announcements during the KDE 4.1 development cycle was the reported removal of icons for the desktop. In actuality, desktop icons are not missing from the new version, they're just handled differently. This version introduces a Folder View plasmoid, which is a container you can place on the desktop that can show the contents of any directory. Most distributions set one up in the default configuration to show the contents of the desktop folder, but you are no longer limited to having the contents of just the desktop folder displayed on your desktop -- you can add several instances of Folder View, each showing a different directory.

As far as eye candy, KDE 4.1 looks simply stunning. While its theme uses the same foundation as 4.0, the developers have improved it with many tweaks. Desktop plasmoids no longer have extremely thick borders, transparent objects appear cleaner, the KDE login manager and splash screens have a new theme, and a tweaked version of the Oxygen window border (called Ozone) is included and better blends into the styles. Plasma itself has also been given its own theme engine (separate from the KDE desktop theme) with several different themes already built in.

The default application roster contains the same lineup as before, with Konqueror as the default Web browser, Dolphin for file management, Gwenview handling image viewing, Kopete taking care of instant messaging, and JuK managing audio playlists. Although Konqueror doesn't seem to offer the same level of functionality (such as the number of available plugins) that Firefox and Opera do, it's still a solid app. Returning from KDE 3 for the first time in the KDE 4 cycle is Kontact and its related personal information management tools, as well as the KDE CD Player.

Some of the most notable new features in KDE 4.1 include the introduction of the minimalistic Dragon Player for videos, tree view and tabbed browsing features in Dolphin, and several improvements in Gwenview, such as a thumbnail bar and the repositioning of the rotate and full screen options to easier to reach places to minimize mouse movement.

With all of the new features, one might think the responsiveness of the KDE desktop would take a hit. In my tests, everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop.

On the down side...

Not all of the improvements are clear winners. The new interfaces may take some getting used to by those accustomed to KDE 3. In addition, users with Nvidia graphics cards and proprietary drivers may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets, although I did not experienced this during tests with my Nvidia hardware.

Finally, users are likely to miss Amarok 2.0 (at the time of this writing it's not yet completed) and a KDE 4 version of KnetworkManager.

KDE marks a triumphant return to full usability with the 4.1 release. I've read that some KDE 3 features still need to be ported to KDE 4, yet I'm hard pressed to think of anything missing, except for a way of hiding the panel. The developers have done a wonderful job of keeping their promises of a return to glory for KDE. This new release has become the default desktop on several machines in my house, replacing KDE 3 completely.

Jeremy LaCroix is an IT technician who writes in his free time.

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on KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

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By "rocks" you actually mean ....

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.192.250.149] on July 29, 2008 10:10 AM
"KDE marks a triumphant return to full usability with the 4.1 release. I've read that some KDE 3 features still need to be ported to KDE 4"

.... so KDE 4.1 is now almost as good as KDE 3. Wow. Gee Whiz. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

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Re: By "rocks" you actually mean ....

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.117.221.3] on July 29, 2008 10:13 AM
You are a dick !!!

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Re(1): By

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 8.8.128.236] on July 29, 2008 01:00 PM
There's no need for name calling, it just shows your ignorance. It also how little you know about the differences between KDE 3.x and the KDE 4.x series. I still contend that KDE 4.1 is still a beta since it doesn't contain all the features of the previous release and there are regressions. Before going down the 3.x / 4.x argument, if KDE 4.x is suppose to be different from KDE 3.x, it should have been called by a different name.

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Re(2): By

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 18.103.18.93] on July 29, 2008 10:55 PM
You sir are DEAD on. Who in their right mind give a developers release the name that should be taken by the first official upgrade? duh, it's a no brain-er they fumbled this one. The plasma bar STILL doesn't hide? WTF!!?! even some of the most basic desktops have that ability. I agree, this is probably closet to a beta release, if not a final pre-release. Until I can hide the plasma bar out of site, I'll stick with kicker.

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far away from a KDE3 replacement

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.142.60.64] on August 02, 2008 11:15 AM
* increased line spaces in kde4 konsole, and no option anymore to change that -> fewer lines in vi -> worse code overview :-/
* infantile unusable KMenu (start menu) - and even when switching to the classic replacement you will loose some important
features the kde3 version had (frequently or last used applications a.s.o....)
* no split view + tree view in the file manager
* no more fine granular distinctions between a simple editor (KEdit fast even on old machines), a full featured but lean one (KWrite)
and a IDE-like one (Kate)
* can't hide the panel
* UI in general is space wasting
* Plasma is using a different html engine, not the KDE-own KHTML
***
Meanwhile the most of the dominant KDE Developers are at the payroll of QT/Nokia - so its naturally that this has an influence at the direction
the KDE development takes - the dot.kde forums are censored now ...
Isn't it time for a new call: 'anybody out there interested in a OSS Desktop Environment ...?'?

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FolderView is also a containment now...

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.71.79.184] on July 29, 2008 10:30 AM
...so anyone who wants to stick with the old desktop-as-a-single-folder paradigm, can do so.

http://dot.kde.org/1217104874/ (KDE Commit Digest for July 15)
"In a long-planned move, the FolderView Plasmoid also becomes a containment (which enables it to fill the desktop space)."

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Amarok

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 98.193.50.46] on July 29, 2008 11:21 AM
Amarok 1.4.9 is still available in Fedora. Ionno about other distros.

Upgrading to KDE 4.1 is actually now required to try Amarok 2.0. It is under heavy development and is semi-usable now (notably though, the tag editor is very slow).

If you like Amarok, consider building the latest SVN ( http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/2.0_Development_HowTo#Building_Amarok ) and filing bug reports ( http://bugs.kde.org/ ).

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Re: Amarok

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.157.7.247] on July 29, 2008 05:34 PM
Well Amarok is a pile of wet trousers anyway so no problem there much like KDE 4.1 untill it can at least do EVERYTHING plus some that KDE3.5.9 can it aint worth hooting about

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 41.245.3.38] on July 29, 2008 11:51 AM
Return of the KING!!!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 86.52.5.27] on July 29, 2008 12:22 PM
Is it just me or does the links to kde.org point to empty pages?

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.73.113.90] on July 29, 2008 12:55 PM
you're right, i have it to

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 91.65.112.11] on July 30, 2008 08:13 AM
I think it should point to http://kde.org/info/4.1.0.php

bascht

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 159.149.89.84] on July 29, 2008 01:05 PM
That's probably because the announcement is not up yet.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.74.205.122] on July 29, 2008 01:22 PM
Congrats to them!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 219.82.77.253] on July 29, 2008 02:22 PM
Is this article come from the future world?
I haven't see any other information about KDE 4.1's release.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 12.155.57.131] on July 29, 2008 03:12 PM
Why all of the hate? This is FOSS, meaning you're "Free" to do whatever you like with the software, including never use it. How about instead of bitching about the design and implementation course that the KDE devels are taking with this newest version, why don't you take the KDE 4 code base, remove all the stuff that you don't like, port the Kicker from 3.5 and create your own branch? Start a new project and stop whining. Call it DEK (Desktop Environment K), SDE (Standard Desktop Environment) or something. I would love to see an uber stable and UI consistent version of KDE that could compete heavily with Gnome in this role.

- inaneframe

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 121.45.11.201] on July 29, 2008 03:40 PM
>I would love to see an uber stable and UI consistent version of KDE that could compete heavily with Gnome in this role.

I installed KDE 4.1 for Kubuntu Hardy 8.04 x86_64 from the ppa launchpad repositories:

http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu/

There is your stable and up-to-date version of KDE that beats GNOME hands down.

It has everything that KDE 3.5 has, including the ability to run KDE 3.5 applications, but it also has many of the advancements brought by the emerging KDE4 capabilities.

I set the menu to "classic mode" and you can use KDE 4.1 just about the same way that you used KDE 3.5.9.

All of the KDE4 naysayers can apologise now ... it would be a great time IMO to get it done before the rush.

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Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 12.155.57.131] on July 29, 2008 06:07 PM
"There is your stable and up-to-date version of KDE that beats GNOME hands down."

Wow, I'm only telling people to make their own if they don't like KDE4. I will give you up-to-date but it is NOT as stable as Gnome. KDE is not meant to be as stable as Gnome, there are still some bugs and things that cause crashing plasmoids, confusing UI decisions (inconsistency between configuration windows for instance). Gnome is meant to be stable from the ground up. That is why they have so few changes and the changes that do occur are VERY incremental and do not break compatibility with Gnome from almost 10 years ago. This is what is needed for a desktop used in enterprise environments. Of course KDE4 is not entirely stable yet, they're just coming out of a major toolkit shift. KDE4 is everything that is needed for desktop users that want glitz and nothing but. I prefer the rock solid feel of Gnome with a little glitz added on top. I might use a stable QT4 based desktop in the future that had a HIG that they stood by. The KDE4 developers are doing well and I don't think it's fair for people to bag on them for doing something that they want and their users want. If you don't want to be a part of it, make your own KDE, that was my only point.

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Re(2): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.200.32] on July 30, 2008 12:00 AM
"Gnome is meant to be stable from the ground up."

Thanks Sherlock. I'll remember that when I try Evolution for the umpteenth time after several years of development.

"That is why they have so few changes and the changes that do occur are VERY incremental and do not break compatibility with Gnome from almost 10 years ago."

That's a lovely bit of reasoning, but alas, it's all smoke really. Incremental changes have basically amounted to nothing of any significance over the past few 'releases' in terms of new features and functionality. The reason why that is is because the framework they have underneath them simply doesn't allow them to add new features and functionality in any sane manner.

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Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 18.103.18.93] on July 29, 2008 10:58 PM
Can you auto-hide the plasma bar?

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 64.65.209.184] on July 29, 2008 06:03 PM
I tried doing that with KDE at one time. It pissed off some members of the KDE developer community so much that they convinced Freshmeat to take my project down off of their site. Apparently the FOSS community does not consider more consistent UI and usability to be any kind of justification for forking. That's only allowed for "important" stuff like kernels and virtualization systems.

Just because you're free to modify their source doesn't actually mean that they'll let you get away with it. I'm not gonna complain too much, though. The experience taught me a lot about how FOSS actually works (as opposed to the way its proponents claim that it works). Wouldn't trade that experience for anything.

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Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 217.171.129.71] on July 29, 2008 07:07 PM
Say what??? Care to substantiate your troll??? What,, when, how??? Because once the code is released under GPL, there is nothing a developer can do to stop you so long as you abide by the license, and I cannot remember a time when KDE ever did what you describe.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.183.166.144] on July 29, 2008 03:52 PM
I just tried KDE 4.1, IMO Gnome is better, KDE has a feel of being incomplete and messy (to me).

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 141.217.215.164] on July 29, 2008 04:14 PM
Please fill in the blanks in your mind not on this post:

KDE 4.1 _______ compared to Gnome

KDE 4.1 _______ compared to KDE 3

I don't see how this quibbling is ever productive for linux, KDE, or Gnome. If you don't like it don't use it.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.191.158.80] on July 29, 2008 04:38 PM
Is it just me, or does KDE 4.x look like an ugly cross between Vista and OSX?

Don't get me wrong, I like KDE, though I haven't tried the 4.x releases. I've just seen the screenshots and I think it looks fugly.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 198.133.105.247] on July 29, 2008 06:48 PM
I totally agree. The first time I used vista, I thought..wow this is what KDE4 is attempting to copy, and doing it poorly too! Then they call it innovative desktop design.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 163.192.21.43] on July 29, 2008 04:59 PM
Proxy Support?!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 24.248.89.66] on July 29, 2008 05:42 PM
I think the most interesting part of this is that they are changing the standard desktop we've seen since MacOS 1. I think the standard desktop is a bad idea. The first window you open up you cover up all your icons. This design is only logical in a non multi-tasking environment. While I haven't used KDE since 2.x series, I plan on downloading a live CD of this so I can see it in action.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 05:42 PM
Actually the standard desktop has been the same since Xerox Parc, which Apple copied for MacOS 1.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.101.13.192] on July 29, 2008 05:54 PM
What about Kmail? Digikam?

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 217.171.129.71] on July 29, 2008 07:10 PM
You did follow the link first right? Or even RTFA? KMail is in 4.1, Digikam is an independent project currently in beta.

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KDE 4.0 blew - turned to XFCE

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.75.14.230] on July 29, 2008 05:59 PM
KDE 4.0 was so horrible I switched to XFCE - and loved it.. Not going back now...

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Re: KDE 4.0 blew - turned to XFCE

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 18.103.18.93] on July 29, 2008 11:03 PM
XFCE needs a decent control panel, then I'd switch. I still use KDE 3.5 because even Gnomes control panel sucks

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.251.28.37] on July 29, 2008 06:03 PM
Congrats to devs! KDE 4.1 ROCKS!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 190.174.195.44] on July 29, 2008 06:07 PM
Nah, it is not an ugly crossover, you have many themes to choose from, this dark one resembles vista, but there a few other ones available by default. Regarding the visual part, you also have to take into account that since KDE4 is still very young, there arent many options to customize it visually the same way you can with KDE 3.X.X head to KDE Look Org and see it yourself... I think KDE 4 is great the way it is now and with time it will get much better. Once they start integrating plasmoids with Compiz they will achieve some jawdropping stuff like using the shift compiz effect with folder views on the desktop or something like the ability to iconify windows views, I think the possibilities KDE 4 brings are endless. Congrats to the KDE Team!!!!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 146.114.69.89] on July 29, 2008 06:12 PM
Screenshot looks kind of like vista. I'm going to give it a whirl anyway, open source baby, freedom to play.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 97.90.138.171] on July 29, 2008 06:25 PM
I use to run kde. I switched over to gnome. I just cannot understand why kde crashes. It crashes on ...this is my 9th pc? I can be doing something and a random pop up says crash. I switched to windows. About 1 year ago, i came to linux and dove into gnome. Very stable! Never crashes! when kde4 came out, I decided to give this a chance. OMG! SUCKS! It needs alot of work and ill be looking into KDE 5 after they decide to dump kde 4. The oxygen theme and the gui is a vast improvement but this is no excuse to break compatability. I'll stick with gnome: I'll try kde 5 but I'll stick with gnome. gnome+compiz fusion+awn or kiba+ conky+screenlets does way more than i can ever do on a kde 4. Really.... it runs @ silk smooth speed and not that 4fps animation of plasmoids. It is a total eyesoar just seeing how bad it animates.

we need
1. Stability
2. Something that doesnt break compatability
3. a desktop and not a folder containment.


on the plus side, oxygen is clean, new interface is good but not as good as gnome. and It is being worked on.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 149.254.192.195] on July 30, 2008 11:36 AM
"I just cannot understand why kde crashes. It crashes on ...this is my 9th pc?"

Hmmmmm. It's obviously not a widespread problem, is it? ;-)

"i came to linux and dove into gnome. Very stable! Never crashes!"

Hmmmm. Whatever.

"gnome+compiz fusion+awn or kiba+ conky+screenlets does way more than i can ever do on a kde 4."

No, I'm afraid it doesn't and that collection is a hotch potch of poorly integrated and coordinated components. Basically, you're trying to tell us that Gnome will do everything that KDE 4 can do and I'm afraid that's just not true on current form.

"Really.... it runs @ silk smooth speed and not that 4fps animation of plasmoids."

I'm afraid not. Compiz still has an awful lot problems owing to the fact that it is not developed with a desktop environment, and I'd absolutely love to see where you got 4 fps from. Hilarious.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 24.84.188.90] on July 31, 2008 04:23 AM
It annoys me that a Linux user could be this retarded. Guess this is what happens when distributions begin targeting imbeciles. Guess what? KDE 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 are going to go through the same birthing pains KDE 4 went through, just as KDE 4 went through the same birthing pains as KDE 1.0 and 2.0 (3.0 was relatively minor since it's pretty much a straight continuation of 2.X), the same pains as GNOME 2.0, OS X 10.0. It's unavoidable.

KDE is ripping off Vista? Explain. Black panel? Preeeetttty damning.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 124.190.194.227] on August 01, 2008 11:30 AM
well said, except I use stalonetray instead of kiba. so gnome+compiz fusion+awn or stalonetray+ conky+screenlets

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:14 PM
I'll guess that the KDE 4 you tried was 4.0.x which was a DEVELOPER release that should never have been a default desktop even at 4.0.3. Unhappy that it was? If you use Fedora then blame them, not the devs, for that idiotic decision.

I'm glad you like GNOME with all the eye candy turned on full blast and, for you, it never crashed. I've crashed it a few times but it's recovered quite nicely.

Your shopping list:
1. Stability: KDE 4.1 is stable, recovers from crashes elegantly without interrupting the work flow and goes on, much like KDE 3.5.x does.
2 Comparability: Newsflash! GNOME 2.0 broke compatibility with what came before. Don't even start to talk to me about Vista. And KDE 3.5.x apps run happily in KDE 4.1. That some apps have to be rewritten to one degree or another for KDE 4.x is hardly surprising or something to dump on it for. Animations in 4.1 run very smoothly at nearly 29fps, same as video.
3: A traditional desktop is nothing more than a folder containment with a pretty face. KDE 4 seeks to move beyond that. If you're happy with the traditional desktop then, by all means use one. Or wait till KDE 4.2 comes out with a FolderView plasmoid that gives it back to you. I don't think I'm going to use it mind you.

Some personal experience. Don't install KDE 4.1 on any Ubuntu/Kubuntu and expect it to work without a ton of work. Perhaps not even then. SUSE 11 works well out of the box though there are things I just don't like about it which have more to do with how SUSE organizes things than anything else. Mandriva 2009 Beta 1 is the most stable and usable KDE 4.1 desktop I've encountered and that's an early beta of Mandriva's next general release due in October. That's also become my daily desktop on one machine and it's about to become the same on another one.

In my experience KDE 4.1 runs as fast or faster than GNOME without the eye candy and much faster than GNOME with the eye candy. That could just be me because I haven't timed anything. With Mandriva it comes with a good number of native apps including Kontact and a somewhat improved Konsole. Amarok 2 beta runs very sweetly keeping in mind that it's really Alpha stage.

For those of you whining that KDE 4.1 copied from Vista I hate to tell you this but KDE is blisteringly fast compared to that bit of bloatware on far less resources. And it is simply a better environment. Actually KDE 4 is what Vista would like to be if it grows up.

No one is shoving KDE 4.1 down your throat or telling you you must use it. If you don't like it then don't. Simple really.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 201.40.30.223] on July 29, 2008 06:27 PM
Cool. But Gnome 2.22 is much less cluttered, more objective and fast.
If you like to get things done, go Gnome. If you like a nice desktop, well.. Go gnome.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 198.133.105.247] on July 29, 2008 06:55 PM
KDE should remove these inexperienced UI copycats commit access, and get some people who know how to design a real desktop.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 67.34.212.254] on July 29, 2008 07:36 PM
"Cool. But Gnome 2.22 is much less cluttered, more objective and fast.
If you like to get things done, go Gnome. If you like a nice desktop, well.. Go gnome."


It's easy to be uncluttered when you have a lack of features. Don't confuse the 2 - GNOME has always trailed KDE in terms of features and functionality. GNOME 2.22 is still inferior to the OLD version of KDE, 3.5.9, and until 4.0 came out you didn't hear a peep from the gnome crowd. Cowards.

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Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 65.166.8.34] on July 29, 2008 08:20 PM
It's easy to be uncluttered when you have a lack of features. Don't confuse the 2 - GNOME has always trailed KDE in terms of features and functionality. GNOME 2.22 is still inferior to the OLD version of KDE, 3.5.9, and until 4.0 came out you didn't hear a peep from the gnome crowd. Cowards.

This is just not a true statement. Features are no good if they are not well made. Kde is not a professional looking desktop manager no matter what version you use. By the way, I've always said that the Kde desktop was just thrown together. Whenever you can't keep your text in your menus or windows where it should be then you have a problem.
Eddie Wilson

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Re(2): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.200.28] on July 30, 2008 09:18 PM
"This is just not a true statement."

It is true. It's a primary reason for the 'uncluttered' Gnome control panel dialogues. Is your UI becoming cluttered, or does it take too much effort to implement a feature option in a GUI? Fine. Just throw it in as an option in gconf and tell everyone they don't need it anyway.

"Features are no good if they are not well made."

Unfortunately, a desktop that has less features than what Windows and OS X do is not going to make much headway beyond it's own self-important community.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.165.183.138] on July 29, 2008 06:32 PM
Is there ever a negative review on any linux applications from this site? It seems that most of these reviews from this site are always on the 'positive and good side' of any linux based applications...they don't seem to find many flaws in it. Oh well, I'm barking at the wrong tree..this is after all a linux base website.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 65.166.8.34] on July 29, 2008 08:25 PM
Is there ever a negative review on any linux applications from this site?

Do you want a negative review? Don't listen to reviews. Use the product and then make your own judgment. What have you got to lose

Eddie Wilson.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.240.209.6] on July 29, 2008 06:51 PM
That screenshot definitely doesn't make me want to install Linux on my desktop.
I think it's the typeface... it's just awful.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 24.117.228.210] on July 29, 2008 08:13 PM
I've gotten in a lot of trouble, here and elsewhere, for my objections to KDE4. It wasn't ready for primetime, and should never have been the default desktop of any distro. But they have a right to do it, and very good things may come of it. That has been the history of OpenSource and that will be the future of OpenSource. I'm excited to take a look at it. But for every box I build, SuSe 11 is going to be installed off of DVD, which allows you to select KDE3. Production is production, and Beta is Beta, even in the OpenSource world. I hope many of the flaws have been corrected, and I wish the KDE4 team every success. I hope when I try it this time it changes my mind.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:33 PM
"Production is production, and Beta is Beta, even in the OpenSource world. I hope many of the flaws have been corrected, and I wish the KDE4 team every success. I hope when I try it this time it changes my mind."

That applies to the KDE devs, too, who recommend KDE 4.1 for early adopters only and not for production use.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.42.227.214] on July 29, 2008 08:16 PM
Pretty busy looking desktop. I've tried KDE 4.0 and honestly found all the eye-candy really distracting. Give me fluxbox and a nice gtk theme and I'm good to go. The great thing about Linux is the fact that we can choose a desktop with all the eye candy madness, or something simple and clean. Log live freedom and choice.

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Well done

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.75.96] on July 29, 2008 08:24 PM
KDE 4.1 has been available for less than 12 hours and already the moaning has started. I seriously doubt that anyone "in the public" have had time to performe at serious evaluation yet. Anyone can fire it up and start looking for items of dislike, but that's a rather childish approach. At the very least get hang of the consept.

As already stated in other comments above - it's completely free not to use.

If your opinion is that there is too much bling - remove whatever deemed excessive - or don't put it there ..... or simply grow up.

By far, the most negative issue with KDE 4.1 has been the amount of low-level rants. KDE 4.1 works fine - has great apps - looks good - are tidy - no crashes (here) - And the best part: Superb potential.

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Re: Well done

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 198.133.105.244] on July 29, 2008 08:36 PM
And while it's completely free not to use, I'm completely free to comment on my dislikes just like the developers are free to not listen. So I'm unsure of the direction people are headed with that type of comment. KDE4 in my experience is lacking features, lacking innovation (poorly copied vista) and crashes quite often. And the best part: Superb potential for failure. The best course of action: delete the KDE4 tree and make another attempt.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 208.57.139.45] on July 29, 2008 09:09 PM
I'm happy about the return of a weather widget to the desktop (I prefer to ride my bike to work if I can, and it sucks if you lose track of the weather, so on the one hand it's kind of a silly little thing, but on the other hand, for me it's a big deal).

However, kregexpeditor is still MIA, which gives me sad feelings (it was getting a little long in the tooth, and I understand it has no maintainer, but it still has no substitute).

I remember resisting the whole idea of putting folder icons ON the desktop when OpenLook went out of vogue, so I have a kind of gratified "told you so; told you so" feeling now that they're being removed again. Of course the kids today don't remember it any other way.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 87.123.76.100] on July 29, 2008 10:49 PM
"Finally, users are likely to miss Amarok 2.0 (at the time of this writing it's not yet completed) and a KDE 4 version of KnetworkManager."

This means that, besides being slower, KDE 4.1 is missing two applications that are among the most useful ones.

Amarok is great and I don't want to configure my wireless connection via command line.

No, thanks.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.205.44.2] on August 04, 2008 09:06 PM
YEAH.... like many here you comments on something you don't know.... kde 3.5 apps work PERFECTLY in KDE4...

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.229.208.82] on July 29, 2008 11:29 PM
What I see on http://www.linux.com/var/uploads/Image/articles/142661.png is a file manager where you can not see the name of your files and only see the year of the date.
Is this screenshot supposed to make people willing to try it or were the columns and side boxes manually arranged in order to make it look painful to use ?

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 86.145.196.250] on July 30, 2008 01:35 AM
It has been resized to show more of the desktop by whoever took the picture - so you are not seeing as it appears in use. If you actually took the time out to try the software instead of condemning based on looking at screenshots only then you would also see that you can add/subtract all the fields (such as date, filetype, size etc..). And in fact it pisses all over nautilus and windows explor

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Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.55.162.90] on July 30, 2008 09:17 AM
Why would I download hundreds of megabytes of software and lose half a day testing it if an article saying that it rocks without giving much reasons shows only one screenshot where it does not look usable ?
If you want people to try it, give them a reason to...

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.200.28] on July 30, 2008 09:24 PM
"What I see on http://www.linux.com/var/uploads/Image/articles/142661.png is a file manager where you can not see the name of your files and only see the year of the date."

Errrrrr, you can resize your Windows you know, which is what he's done here so you can see the rest of the desktop? Goodness me.

"Is this screenshot supposed to make people willing to try it or were the columns and side boxes manually arranged in order to make it look painful to use ?"

Wow. Suddenly everyone is a 'usability' expert who can pick out flaws in order to try and tell us how 'cluttered' and 'unusable' KDE 4.1 is.

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Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 97.90.138.171] on August 03, 2008 05:57 PM
YES EVERYBODY IS A USABILITY EXPERT! WE ALL USE IT AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a rediculous comment.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:17 PM
That's a very small Dolphin window and it does look like the columns have been manually arranged. Increase the size of the window and tons more information will appear.

Sheesh!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 60.234.206.1] on July 29, 2008 11:57 PM
Speaking as a developer some of you are pathetic, I've used KDE3.x, KDE4.0 and Gnome and I have to say I like them all in different ways. I certainly don't take anything missing from KDE4.0 as a personal insult as some of you appear to be doing.

I do agree that KDE4.x is somewhat in a bit of a beta stage at present but then most OSS is always in a constant state of development and therefore is technically always Beta, for that matter most closed source programs are in a constant state of development too and many many releases have been made with programs that aren't "ready yet". The difference? Well with Closed source/proprietary programs you normally have to pay for the privillege of using this unfinished program and when they do finish it they normally release it as the next version and at the very least make you pay for the upgrade, with OSS it gets released sure, but if it's a release version that has issues they inform you of those issues and you are free to make up your mind whether or not to use it.

Some of you seem to be missing the point of OSS, it isn't to use a program and then bag on it as much as possible if it doesn't happen to suit you. If you're not a dev or don't have anything helpful to say, then think it, don't go spouting it where people DON'T want to read it, you look stupid and ignorant. If you are a dev or have helpful suggestions then file bug reports, make informed posts on newsboards and forums such as this one.

Don't just spend your entire life defending an outdated, boring, yet stable and slightly customizable desktop like Gnome and bagging on something more forward thinking like KDE4.x. If you love Gnome because it's stable and can be MADE to look nice (Looks like a dogs ear out of the box IMHO) then use it and stick with it, well done you've made an informed decision on some software you like, want to use and works well for you.

If you don't want to take risks and try newer software that may have issues or if you don't like the look of it then fine, you don't like the look of it, it doesn't work for you, you may even be a strange person who takes the release of the software as a personal insult to your own integrity (I don't know why but these people do exist), but you know, the place to state that if you absolutely insist on voicing said opinion would be in a seperate post, made by you, which clearly has the intent of showing your opinion, not as a comment to a positive review about a product on one of the flagship websites for promoting Linux, people convert to Linux for many reasons, one of which is to join a community, no one wants to join a community that openly bickers about it's own products for no reason and appears to be full of children who can't articulate the fact that their daddy hated them (below the belt I know but it's how this sort of thing looks to the outside world, you read it and think, OMG this guy has issues that go much deeper than the software he's commenting on).

As for those who are saying it's a vista clone you obviously haven't looked any further than the standard screenshots, it has a tonne more features than Vista, is actually more stable and doesn't actually look anything like Vista other than the standard theme has a black panel, plus I'm forgetting something here, oh yeah Vista was released as a finished product that was broken beyond belief and didn't receive an update to fix things (Which then broke other things when it did come) for over a year, KDE4.0 was released with a clear advisory that it was NOT a finished product however it was stable enough to be a release instead of beta and that it would be fixed quickly, it was

/End Rant and prepares for the typical, predictable, unavoidable flaming.

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Re: OSS is always Beta

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.191.215.166] on July 30, 2008 01:32 AM
Why must open source software be "technically always Beta"?

Was KDE 3.5 Beta? It worked fine for me. It was more stable for me (on several computers) than Windows was in the past (don't know about Vista). But if your point is that software is normally Beta, then perhaps KDE 4.x is Alpha.

We suggest Firefox as an alternative to IE, not because we want to see people fumble with unstable software, but because it works well. Similarly, new releases of Open Office and GIMP and K3B and Audacity and many other open source products are relatively stable and work well.

We should encourage KDE to specifically identify which KDE products are competitive with the norm with respect to stability. KDE should pay some price in terms of critical response when KDE releases software with lots of problems. While I think some comments go too far or are too crude, those critical comments do contain some truth.

Those who would discourage critical comments on the basis that we should expect open source software to be unstable... well, shame on you.

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Re(1): OSS is always Beta

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 97.90.138.171] on August 03, 2008 06:06 PM
The point is to bang on the product so that they can listen. At least comment on it. People already asked to remove that ugly hulking panel that takes up tons of space or at least add a resize option. That sucker alone with another panel takes up at least 1/4 of my screen. Rediculous! That should of been priority and also the desktop. Why do we need to see a folder where it shows a desktop? just stick it in the documents! It is Rediculous and they just cluttered the desktop and removed your desktop.

The point here is they wanted to remove clutter from your desktop by cluttering it with spammoids or plasmoids. THis is useless when you want to do some work. It is there baby and I can Honestly understand this and I can say it was a bold move to redoo something that was not broken but really this ticked off alot of people.

Maybee breaking this can bring new light? we will see.

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Re(1): OSS is always Beta

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 04, 2008 09:19 AM
Good lord. All software is technically beta in the sense that it's never finished. That's what he said and what you seem to have missed.

Comparing a complete desktop to the apps that run in the desktop in terms of complexity and interactions is foolish and ignorant.

Oh, by the way, Firefox has stumbled a couple of times, not too seriously, but there have been buggy releases and zero day exploits even with FF3. (For the record I love FF3 but facts is facts.) GIMP has had its share of problems over the years and one reason for it's stability is that it hasn't had an overhaul in years and was in danger of being left behind before some of the original devs got going on it again. K3B runs on a desktop, KDE, actually, and will run on KDE 4 by the fall or early winter. It's by no means the level of complexity that the desktop software itself it. I prefer Amarok to Audacity so I can't say much about Audacity and it's stability now though when it was new and I tried it it crashed regularly and was a bit of a nightmare.

Let's go back to KDE 4.0 which, in spite of all the verbage to the otherwise was clearly labelled as a developer release. It was just as clearly labelled as not for production work. That Fedora and some others decided to make it a default desktop in spite of all of that which they were clearly aware of they went ahead.

KDE 4.1 has been clearly targeted at early adopters. You know, foolish people like me who are willing to use software that isn't quite baked in order to provide things like feedback. It can be used as a daily desktop, IMHO, though not if you expect the kind of fit and finish in KDE 3.5.9. It ain't there yet. And the KDE devs are clear about that. They even say that it's not to be used in a production environment. In block capital letters on their web site in case you miss it. SuSE provides a similar warning as, I expect, will Mandriva when 2009 comes out in October, though being closer to KDE 4.2 release it may be less of a problem by then.

And yes, FOSS projects release things like KDE 4.0 all the time as developer or pre-alpha releases in the hopes that developers and the odd user will provide valuable feednback.

Almost all the feedback on 4.0.x has been either ignorant out out and out angry and misinformed. (Incidentally in 4.1 you can resize the panel.)

As for setting up s wireless connection from a desktop manager I tend to prefer the distro tools be they (YUCK!) YaST, or MCC (much, much better) or whatever.

There are times as an FOSS user you DO need to accept that you'll run across situations like this particularly when a desktop manager has a complete overhaul. Particularly when distros and users have been told from day 1 that this isn't ready for production yet. Part of being a FOSS user is the expectation that you may want to or will provide feedback to a project about what they're doing and where they're going.

With KDE 4 what I'm seeing is often "I don't understand this", "I want my KDE 3.5.9 back" though it isn't going anywhere except to 3.5.10, and those who just don't like where it's going. Fair enough. Then don't use it!

If you want to use a desktop that fundamentally hasn't changed since Xerox Parc days be my guest. I'd venture a guess that it works for you because it's all you, or the rest of us, know. As for me it frequently infuriates me. And using something as flame bait when it tries to move beyond the box that GUI desktops are in simply isn't helpful or constructive.

What comes out of this process won't be unstable. Actually, with 4.1, at least in SuSE and Mandriva it isn't. It's rock solid. Still a work in progress but rock solid none the less.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.166.77.127] on July 30, 2008 12:44 AM
"Looks like a dogs ear out of the box IMHO"

Oh, I wish people wouldn't spout things like this about Gnome where people DON'T want to read it.
That's just stupid and ignorant.

:-)

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.27.28.172] on July 30, 2008 02:00 AM
Like someone on Slashdot wrote, "If you like Gnome, you'll love KDE4 - it lacks many of the same features Gnome does". Indeed, when I looked at the new Konsole (which in the 3.x series I consider to be the strongest app KDE has ever had - especially compared to its piece of garbage Gnome counterpart that couldn't even handle internationalisation together with screen), it has been Gnomified so much that I want to stay as far away from it as possible for now. And Dolphin? Seriously, if I wanted to feel pain when using Linux, I'd go with Gnome - why copy Gnome when you have something better already?

Regarding an earlier poster's comment about KDE's unusability - I say bollocks. My KDE 3.5 desktop has been configured for years with the MacOS style menubar on top and with unnecessary eye candy off, and I'll choose that desktop over the cripple that's Gnome ANYTIME. I can configure KDE 3.5 to optimise my workflow. Gnome just doesn't have that. At all.

I'm in favour of upgrading the technology underneath the user experience in KDE4 - but I do take offense for someone basically grabbing my favourite desktop environment by the throat, choking it until it turns blue in the face and then paint a clown face over it.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 04, 2008 09:34 AM
"I'm in favour of upgrading the technology underneath the user experience in KDE4 - but I do take offense for someone basically grabbing my favourite desktop environment by the throat, choking it until it turns blue in the face and then paint a clown face over it."

I've heard that line before which begs the question of have you tried KDE 4.1? You'll find Konq is still there and for all it's drawbacks Dolphin is far more powerful than anything in the GTK world. And the devs have listened to all the comments/complaints about not being able to set Konq as the default file manager and that will come in 4.2 along with a FolderView for those who can't live without an icon littered desktop. I can and already do. 4.1 just makes it so much easier to do that.

Oh, and for the comments about the widgets/plasmoids. At least part of the design behind that is to make your desktop your own by customizing it with available plasmoids or simply writing your own in a wide variety of languages or just by using .xml. You know, like Firefox. Which is where the idea comes from, if anywhere.

And 3.5 isn't going anywhere. There will be a 3.5.10 so no one is choking the life out of it, turning it blue or painting a clown face on it. And it certainly isn't the cripple, as you so succinctly and truthfully put it that GNOME is.

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Well...

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 24.213.0.153] on July 30, 2008 02:58 AM
I had high hopes for KDE 4.0. They released it way too soon... I'll never understand releasing unusable software and calling it a full version. And, I really don't understand why most distros had to rush out a new version with KDE 4. This isn't Windows, you know.

I was told,"just wait six months until 4.1! We'll fix everything that's missing." Well, they didn't... You can't hide the friggin' taskbar, there is no KNetworkManager, and not only can't you get rid of the Add-a-Widget widget in the top-right corner, it looks like they've added another on to the right side of the taskbar. I don't use widgets. I don't plan on using widgets. Why must there be FOUR ways to add widgets?

Now I'm being told, "just wait six months until 4.2! We'll fix everything that's missing. And we really mean it, this time."

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.163.129.60] on July 30, 2008 03:12 AM
While we're comparing, I've been using Enlightenment 17 now and it is getting pretty freakin' slick. Whenever they commit a stable release, that will be a happy day.

It's taking like a decade to actually get released but it is so much nicer than either KDE or Gnome.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.40.62.134] on July 30, 2008 03:44 AM
I believe most of the people (not all) who are complaining are upset simply because KDE4.1 is different. Well Duh, it is supposed to be and you have to get used to it. If you don't like it, go to GNOME, may be it suits you better.

One thing I noticed about KDE 4.1 is its speed. it is so snappy on my old P IV, 1.5 GHz it scares me.

KDE 4.1 is not finalized yet. it still needs fine tuning and getting all features that are in KDE 3.5x also in KDE 4.1

One thing the KDE developers can do is to replace the Kickoff menu with Tasty Menu the way it is implemented by Linux Mint. Tasty Menu doesn't have the extra click to go to sub-menus.

Another thing developers would be great to do is to make Skulpture theme available and distributed by default.

Those who keep criticizing, please go away for 6 months and come again. If GNOME is your thing, stay there please.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 64.30.69.252] on July 30, 2008 03:45 AM
This is software people. For Heaven's sake, why are you at each others throats like you are? Quite a few of you do your damndest to give Open Source and Linux in general a bad name. We don't need people like some of you "representing".

How about you take these misplaced energies and apply them to something worth it, like war and poverty and illiteracy.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 201.6.51.24] on July 30, 2008 05:04 AM
the most funny thing is: well, kde 4.x is still beta, lacking features, etc... in something like 4 months it can be like 20 years ahead of gnome. vista? c'mon, we're talking about software.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.183.100.229] on July 30, 2008 05:55 AM
Linux... KDE... Gnome... LS_Colors... inputrc... ...ad nauseam. Its all nothing but WinXP personified in the UNIX world.

You guys are a bunch of little girls squealing about nothing...

OpenWindows and good CLI terminal is all that's needed. Everything else just slows down the show...

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Dolphin has tabs!!!

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 90.199.173.34] on July 30, 2008 08:16 AM
Yesssss... Dolphin has tabs! That, IMO is a killer feature that sets Konqueror (and now Dolphin) apart from GNOME's file manager and MS Windows Explorer. Drag and drop from tab to tab anyone?

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.148.52.142] on July 30, 2008 08:39 AM
Well, I am an old Gnome user who used to use E16 and had a stint with Fluxbox for a while, and XFCE somewhere in there. Always tried KDE at various points along the 2-3 eras. Every time a new subversion was released, I'd try it and it was too bloated for me. (yes, I know, the bloat comment... don't flame me. I did say "too bloated FOR ME")

Anywho... Been using KDE4 since before 4.0, and I have been watching it progress, and it has done just that. Progressed. I am currently on a system entirely free from Gnome for the first time in the 10+ years of Linux use. (with the small exceptions of libraries and several apps like Audacity.... I think I counted 3 or 4 apps)

I like it. A lot. I like where it's going, and I love the "from the ground up" feel to the development. I can definitely understand why a lot of people wouldn't like it and aren't going to like it no matter what, but I personally find it to be a cliched "breath of fresh air."

I have been sick of Gnome releases where you can't even tell they changed anything at all... even after reading changelogs. I really am sick of waiting for E17. More importantly, these pretzels are making me thirsty.

Well, just my two cents. I can't wait to see where else they take us when 4.2 comes around. I would like to see more plasmoids (widgets, whatever), maybe some that work with the OLD Amarok, as the new one just doesn't suit my tastes quite yet. Also, I am running Compiz, and I have ignored kwin since 4.0, so I can't say anything for the speed or lack thereof of their desktop effects, but I have NEVER seen anything more compatible with Compiz/Fusion than KDE4.

And to the above poster who doesn't like the little "Add Widget" thing on their taskbar, just right click anywhere on the desktop and select "Lock Widgets" If you don't use em, it shouldn't be any problem locking them, and it locks the taskbar from configuration thus removing that little swirly-ma-gig thingy. The one in the corner, I will admit, I wish I could get rid of, but at least it doesn't do anything weird on mouseover anymore. Have to click it for it to do anything.

In short (too late), I am fully enjoying KDE4 and am looking forward to continuing to watch it grow.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 77.226.45.231] on July 30, 2008 10:35 AM
Kde Vista sucks.

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KDE 4.1: Not for distrojunkies

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.0.132] on July 30, 2008 11:36 AM
If your hobby is to install a new distro every day and give it a 1/2 hr spin: Neither KDE 4.1 nor OpenSuse 11 will satisfy your needs.
That is not what it's build for, and I will strongly recommend Gnomed Ubuntu-derviates for such usage.

Longterm involvement in these activities will eventually make a statement such as "Kde Vista sucks" a valid in-depth analysis of software - and provide a rock solid basis for anyone's choice of software.

Keep spinning ;o)

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.251.28.37] on July 30, 2008 12:37 PM
and gnome sucks

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.57.233.28] on July 30, 2008 01:08 PM
and kde vista sucks

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but what can I actually DO with it?

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 90.197.102.110] on July 30, 2008 01:28 PM
OK, leaving aside all the pretty, superficial, eye-candy. what new functions does this thing have and what benefits will I get to repay the time and effort it would take if I decided to upgrade?

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.243.209.33] on July 30, 2008 02:09 PM
"kde vista sucks"

Its good to see Linux being used by children in special education.

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sweet, the desktop wars are back

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 75.145.180.221] on July 30, 2008 02:28 PM
wow. Check it out: first Firefox/Safarie/IE7 brings back the browser wars, and now KDE 4 is bringing back the desktop wars. Awesome. Now, we're only about a month away from all the comments here and on slashdot devolving quickly into "Gnome sucks" and "no, KDE sucks". Sweet action. I can't wait.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 65.171.153.85] on July 30, 2008 02:41 PM
Do you guys not remember the move from 1.x to 2.x to 3.x? They are moving in a new direction and I for one like what I see. It's more like MS copied the look if anything from OS X and KDE. How long has plasma been out. Oh, YEARS, it was just another name but it's a sidebar just like what MS has and widgets. I remember when the code was being hacked to give us a translucent kicker etc. No one complained about not being able to hide it then huh? I know, it's such a SHOW STOPPER to not be able to hide your dock / plasmoid / kicker. WT OMFG.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 130.125.73.65] on July 30, 2008 02:59 PM
I'm using KDE since version 0.x and the version changes from 1>2 and 2>3 were always a bit bumpy. But 4.x is different. I tried 4.0 for about 30 minutes, 4.1 for about 2 hours before returning to 3.5.x.
I just missed some basic (at least for me) features, essential for me.

I'm a software developer and know know much time and work it took to get so far! What I don't understand is the release strategy of KDE 4. In my opinion 4.0 and 4.1 are both pre-alpha releases (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle), celebrated as product releases.
Or did I miss something and 4.x is a complete development release, like linux kernels with odd major release numbers in the old days?
What will be the first "real" product release of KDE 4? 4.5 or 5.0?

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KDE 4.1 sucks...not a desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.2.220] on July 30, 2008 04:00 PM
Bull. What they're doing with this is sickening. KDE used to be a solid desktop. Even if this POS was fully working, it'd probably be about as usable as windows 95 with OHH OMG SUPAR SPECIAL TRANSPARENCY!!11!. I'm a long time KDE user, since 1, and even I switched over to Gnome after this crap started coming out. Do your former users and yourselves a favor: Log into your SVN, rm -rf everything that starts with 4 and send these "developers" back to programming Access or Visual Basic. Then, maybe if you released something that more resembles a desktop and less resembles Vista under a blacklight, we'd start using it again. KDE version 4.0 should be codenamed Kista. What a disaster.

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Re: KDE 4.1 sucks...not a desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 04, 2008 09:46 AM
"Then, maybe if you released something that more resembles a desktop and less resembles Vista under a blacklight, we'd start using it again. KDE version 4.0 should be codenamed Kista. What a disaster."

OK, that's enough stupidity. If anything should be named after XP or Vista it's the pug ugly, do it our way or don't do it at all POS called GNOME. Complete with borrowed (licensed???) MS code called Mono and soon, for you all who just can't wait, "Moonlight"! Did I mention dependent on Mono for a fair bit of it's functionality? Oh yes, and I ought to also mention a Microsoft inspired freaking Registry, of all things!

At times it's hard to remember that GNOME came about because it was felt that KDE and the QT toolkit weren't free enough. The GN in GNOME stood for GNU when it started out.

If you're happy with GNOME and it's baggage then I'm happy for you. You've made the right choice for you. Just don't come complaining when you find out you can't do something in GNOME you could take for granted in KDE and will still be able to do in KDE as 4 progresses.

I can see me in confession now. Forgive me Lord for I have sinned I said nasty things about a troll.



If you want to toss childish names around then expect some like the above to come winging back at you.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 74.14.130.70] on July 30, 2008 04:28 PM
I have always used KDE. Ever since I started playing around with Linux OS's I've used KDE. A friend of mine once told me that he liked Gnome better than KDE and I just laughed because all I remembered was that Gnome was very plain and ugly and it seemed to lack a lot of features I was used to. Then Ubuntu came out..and I tried it. I realized that it was using Gnome instead of KDE and I was like, "Whoa!..Looks like they've really improved this desktop manager." I've love it ever since.

I was looking forward to KDE 4 and there was certainly a lot of hype surrounding it. The screen shots of Plasma had me drooling. But ya know...I tried it and it just seemed like a lot of stuff was missing or non-configurable unlike the previous versions of KDE. It was nothing like what they had hyped. It felt similar to if you were inside of a shiny new corvette that had no engine but just a lot of pretty buttons and knobs or like one of those display cellphones that had no electronics inside. So then they they announced KDE 4.1 and said that this release would be more along the lines of what had been hyped. However guys I gotta tell ya...it sure doesn't seem like it. I think I will stick to Gnome.

And please get rid of that UGLY giant system tray clock or at least make it so it can be configured to look smaller.

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.40.62.134] on July 31, 2008 02:57 AM
"And please get rid of that UGLY giant system tray clock or at least make it so it can be configured to look smaller."

Why do you care? I thought you are sticking with Gnome!

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Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 04, 2008 09:54 AM
You CAN change the typeface in the system tray clock in KDE 4.1.

All of which says you haven't even tried it before posting your remarks. Yeah it's still freaking huge by default for some reason but making it smaller and more pleasing is a simple right mouse click away.

But, as you're sticking with GNOME why do you even care? And why post except to join the equally ignorant chorus?

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 80.0.45.61] on July 30, 2008 06:15 PM
After testing KDE 4.1 for the last 24 hours under kubuntu, I am unable to reproduce the bugs that occurred in both beta versions, I love the concept, the plasmoids, the speed and the stability, <-- yep thats right for me its a solid package, and spot on - my thanks to the dev team.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Justin Lawrence on July 31, 2008 09:51 AM
Kudos to the KDE development team!! I tried it yesterday and, though it has a little way to go, I feel it's a worthy paradigm shift and look forward to the possibilities once the apps catch up. Thanks for all the time and energy put into it.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 75.106.176.75] on July 31, 2008 02:57 PM
I don't care what DE you use, but just wanted to say that it was great fun reading the childish and asinine comments posted because people's opinions didn't coincide. If anyone wonders why linux will never overcome closed source OS's, they just need to look at the morons that will actually troll over others' choice in a desktop.

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KDE 4.1...

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.78.149.47] on July 31, 2008 05:24 PM
I've been using exclusively KDE as a desktop since 2.x (don't remember the subversion) and I always liked it. Gnome didn't lured me, tried it a few times (why not?) but didn't click with me, I'm using though Evolution because I find KMail not comfortable for me (so I really didn't missed it in 4.0). There were some things though I was missing in 4.0 but then KDE team said that all shebang about the change of technology and toolkit and so on.. so I though ok.. I'll stick in there till 4.1 to get what I am missing... unfortunately still not there :(
From my perspective all they did in 4.1 is just fix what was terribly wrong in 4.0 and add a lot of eye-candy (which _is_ pretty cool), nevertheless KDE was always about functionality and configurability (the reason why I never clicked with Gnome)
Some of the things I am missing are:
- Kdevelop, which still isn't there
- Quanta, the same
- session management in Konsole, please
- the Printers management and configuration control panel, hello? there is a joystick control panel.. I mean seriously!?
- font size setting in digital clock widget.. oh come on that should be easy.. I mean do try to resize the main panel (with the digital clock in it) to fit the whole screen for some really jump up effect :O
Besides those things I find the panel settings configuration very anti-intuitive. I think that I do have pretty much experience with computers and all that, but I really had to take a trip to the www to see what the heck are those green and blue pointy things for. Whomever thought that up is really creative I must say, but ergonomically speaking.. err...
Well then some might say to stick with 3.5.x but then I need my periodically new gadgets like any normal high-tech-age dude ;) And then Gnome still doesn't feel luring, and I do get a feeling KDE went closer to Gnome with the 4 generation and XFCE gives me a feeling of KDE in the making.
So what I got in 4.1 is a new shiny gadget/toy without the moving parts in it ;)

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Re: KDE 4.1...

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.70.230] on July 31, 2008 06:45 PM
I'm rather pleased that not everyone are satisfied with KDE 4.1 - especially when it's substanciated like the comment above ;o)

My experience regarding Evolution Vs Contact is exactly the opposite - now we both have something we like ;o) I gladly agree that there are missing apps and features in KDE 4.1 and I generally believe that one should not migrate until the enviroment is ready for you or you are ready for this environment. For my usage KDE 4.1 caters for my needs (a few supplements though), others are best served awaiting 4.2 or 4.3...

Interesting comment about gadgetary behavior as well ;) Probably KDE 4.x is the perfect shop these days - as everything missing will pop up as more or less pleasant surprises rather frequently. For instance it will be exiting to see what comes out of LinuxMCE when it turns up as a distro-independent perk in KDE 4.X . It's been rather quiet for almost a year, but I'm rather confident that it will materialise itself.

Gnome didn't cut it for me either, but it appears to me that KDE have extracted the advantages Gnome actually have - and made them KDE-advantages. I allways thought that Gnome was overly easified and that KDE 3.5.x needed a thorough cleaningjob. It doesn't mean that KDE 4.1 is perfect - but it's my opinion that KDE 4.1 is a step closer to perfect than the rest ;o)

Love that one: Shiny gadget without moving parts ;o)) It makes me think back to my first LCD wristwatch - a Seiko - 30 years ago that was awesome for a kid like me!! And without moving parts! ;)) Later my preference has shiftet towards diver's models and Omega - with moving parts ;o)

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 72.37.126.106] on July 31, 2008 07:53 PM
Linus uses KDE assholes.

and, what the hell is openwindows? oh wait, it doesn't exist.

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I don't understand all the hating

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 10.1.6.149] on July 31, 2008 09:56 PM
We've been through this before going from KDE 1.x to 2.x. It took nearly a year to get completely solid but was clearly the correct way to develop it then. From 2.x to 3.x wasn't much more than a straight port from QT 2 to QT 3. Even the 3.x series had some rough spots along the way. I especially remember the problems translucent rubberboxes had for awhile. Everyone acts like KDE 3.5.x sprang fully formed from the head of a goddess. I suppose for the more recently minted Linux/BSD users that may even be so; I think some of the loudest haters haven't been around long enough to know that KDE has done this before.

From what I've seen, the KDE devs are doing what is necessary to be competitive with other desktops. OS X and follow-ons to Vista will establish expectations that only KDE 4 and maybe Enlightenment will be able to meet. On the other hand, the haters have three solid points:

1. Aspects of the core desktop aren't fully baked. 4.1 addressed many but not all of those concerns.
2. Many much loved apps haven't been ported.
3. The KDE team did a poor job of managing expectations.

So for now, I'm still on 3.5.9. Believe or not 3.5.10 is around the corner too and I'll be staying on 3.5.x through at least that release. Once the configurability and apps come a bit further, I'll switch. So it is possible to appreciate what the KDE devs are trying to do without inconvieniencing yourself.

I certainly don't need to pour spiteful rants in the KDE Teams direction while they get things better sorted. I don't blame those devs for getting a bit miffed at unconstructive criticism from people who are otherwise leechers.

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Re: I don't understand all the hating

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:26 PM
The KDE 4 haters are actually beginning to sound the same, aren't they?

If all else fails in their arguments compare it to Vista which it hasn't borrowed from. More borrowed from OSX and the Solaris desktop that I can see.

Comments like "I don't know how to use it" floor me in that the logical spot, the main menu, seems to be being ignored. Or even just simple curiousity and clicking on something like the Almond in the upper right and seeing what happens.

Yes, some configuration things have moved and do lead to the odd head scratch.

Why criticize constructively when you can read boycottnovell.com and learn the fine art of Whine and FUD the FOSS way? ;-)

Or just spend half a hour with it and figure it out on our own. Come on, folks, it isn't that hard!!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.177.64.119] on August 01, 2008 09:24 AM
Like I said I always knew KDE 4.1 would fix the problem I was having, but they failed to fix a few I've noticed.
Now the review over at http://www.inatux.com/blog/Fedora%209%20and%20KDE%204%20review doesn't make much sense. Hehe :)

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 121.72.180.137] on August 01, 2008 11:57 PM
Tell you what, keep complaining about things you're given for free and they will dissapear. Why would the devs continue to develop things for people to use at no cost if all they get is criticism? I develop mostly closed source programs because I don't feel like spending endless hours staring at code that people are simply going to complain about. Sure if I need to write a program to suit my own needs and people want to use it then I'll release it Open Source but for the most part if I'm developing something thats going to take me weeks/months to develop and I'm not getting paid to do it, and I know that this is the reception my software could get even though I'm not charging for it why would I?

Some devs will continue to develop open source because of just how strongly they believe in it, but we don't just need SOME devs to develop open source, we need a LOT.

Just remember development isn't something you can just blink and type a few letters to acheive, it takes hours and hours of staring at code, compilation times can be upto 3 or 4 hours in some cases just to test it and find that you need to go hunt down 100 lines of code and change them, then compile and test again. I'd love to provide programs for free, but with free software comes a complete lack of gratitude these days, so why bother.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.21.169.252] on August 02, 2008 04:05 AM
I just recently tried 4.1, and it looks nice and all, but I was completely unable to figure out how to DO anything with it, since much has changed, some features have been removed or moved, and there's no actual documentation that I've been able to find anywhere. I'm not against 4 as a platform, and I'm interested to see where it goes, but I think it's obvious that THE KDE team pulled a Vista on this one, they promised too much and delivered too little too soon with too optimistic a version designation.

Let me know when they get to version "4.5" so that I can use something that is more than alpha/beta stage software.

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Why KDE 4.1 does not resemble Vista

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.7.53] on August 02, 2008 01:18 PM
1: Kernel is separate and in evolution
2: KDE 4.1 is a complete rewrite - Vista is flickering
3: KDE 4.1 REDUCES usage of resources - Vista demands MORE
4: KDE 4.1 is rationalising the desktop, Vista increases clutter
5: KDE 4.1 is not forced upon anyone - it's FREE
6: KDE 4.1 is a base of future development - Vista is the end of a development cycle
7: KDE 4.1 allows users to adapt the Desktop to their needs
8: KDE 4.1 will run on multiple platforms
9: KDE 4.1 doesn't kiss and tell
10: KDE 4.1 is a future reference of desktops

To be honest - it makes no sense notifying you when 4.5 arrives - you've already seems to have missed out on the reservations in 4.0 and that the first "final release - i.e 4.1" of any software is for early adaptors. It is not expected to be perfect - it's expected not to be perfect. The comparisation with Vista is interesting in this context all the time Vista needed more than a full year before it was more or less ok. OSX was ok in version 10.5.3 - 10.5 was far from ok.

KDE 4.1 feels different because it is - you have to do things differently because the logic has changed (and that's benefit).
As regards documentation: http://docs.kde.org/index.php?language=en&branch=development
For applications - have a look at the application's site.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.132.201.197] on August 02, 2008 01:49 PM
"10: KDE 4.1 is a future reference of desktops"

OMG!

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Comparing apples and eggs

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 77.25.34.249] on August 02, 2008 10:41 PM
I really, really had to laugh over the whole "discussion"...
Lots of people complaining about "app xy is still missing", when "app xy" is _not_ part of KDE at all, but separate software developed by a separate dev team.
Yes, it's annoying that kdevelop hasn't released a 4.x yet, but it's independent of KDE.
Yes, amarok hasn't released 2.0 yet and is still in beta, but amarok is not part of KDE.

It's always the chicken-egg problem; the applications come after the desktop and it's API has been released...
so instead of complaining, why don't you guys stick with your gnome, KDE 3.5.9, XFCE, Enlightenment and whatnot, be happy with it and wait until everything catches up and begins to form a usable whole?
Why must everyone wank about the things they use and like and whatnot?
Everything takes time, and if some of you had a life, you'd know that.

Seriously, I used KDE4 daily from 4.0 beta1 on, and yes it crashed.
Since then, it has evolved into something I really like and find interesting, and with 4.1 it made another huge step forward.
But of course, it still has it's flaws, and it's far from perfect - and just because it's fine for me and I like it, I don't expect everyone to agree.
I guess with 4.2, maybe even before, we will see it growing up and leave it's "kinderkrankheiten" behind, plus the advent of applications that actually use the new APIs and show the potential.
Until then, we should really stop bitching aroung and pretend to be children - and show some respect to the devs and the work and time effort they put into this piece of software; criticism is of no use unless it's constructive, and constructive critiscism shows that you respect the person you're talking to.
This can be done using harsh words (as I did myself a few lines up), but the general tone should allow the intended recipient to actually have some sort of gain from your writing and should not be repelled by ignorance and insulting.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.170.163.51] on August 04, 2008 05:47 AM
KDE 4.x is so UGLY.

My god.

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KDE 4.1 on low resources

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.8.218.89] on August 04, 2008 06:37 PM
Have tested KDE 4.1 (on 2.6.26 kernel) with 700 mhz Celeron, ATI Rage mobility M (4mb), 256mb Pc100 ram. It works well before tuning. Distro is Mandriva 2009 beta1 thus improvements are expected when Mandriva 2009 is released (and code optimised). KDE 4.1 uses less memory than KDE 3.5.9 (with Mandriva 2008). I'm sure I can get better performance with other alternatives - for distro and desktop, but this machine is intended for simple low mainteneance usage by a inexperienced user and the hardware + desktop combo will cater for all his needs for 2-3 years. 10-11 year lifespan is not bad for a Laptop!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.162.229.168] on August 05, 2008 02:57 AM
Thanks to your review, I decided to give KDE 4.1 another shot.

The upshot was I spent about 3 hours trying to get the launcher to sort my programs by their names instead of their descriptions (I look for Firefox under "F", not "W") and then gave up.

Come to think of it, linux.com is the same site that convinced me back in 2004 that ATI's Linux driver woes were over. At least this time I didn't spend $230 on a piece of hardware that didn't work.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 67.88.6.146] on August 05, 2008 04:44 PM
I run sidux and arch in dual boot on a 4yr old laptop, and I have to say that Archlinux's implementation of kde4 , more specifically kdemod4, is great. They have done some great work, Nice job KDE and Arch team. Looking forward to growing with this desktop. for those that are complaining, WTF are you complaining about? Your free to use any other DE/WM you want, including kde3... No one gives a damn what you use except you so why get on here and start complaining about kde4 if that is not a DE you use or plan on using. If your a kde3 user like i am/was, then stop panicking, kde3 is still available.... isn't that one of the reasons FOSS is what it is... freedom to choose... If you do plan on using kde4 then please get involved in the community. otherwise your pointless rants are just that.... Your free to complain as much as you want, but if you don't get involved in the process, then you deserve what you get...

And seriously for those who think kde4 is a vista copy... I can only hope that your emotions got the best of you when you made that comment. The only similarity I see is the panel is black like vista by default ...have you actually used kde4. (staring at screenshots does not count).

A DE war is pointless. gnome and kde are not the same. not even close. That fact that we in the linux community spend our time on trivial issues saddens me. If only our passion for Linux could be used collaboratively to improve the software and community as opposed to this in-house fighting....

3000 out!!!

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop -- Jeremy, a bit of prudence please, KDE is a framework, not an OS! --

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.235.32.18] on August 08, 2008 12:22 AM
Jeremy:
I was greatly disappointed when I installed OpenSuse (usually one the best), because I did install it with KDE4, on the base of comments like yours: overly enthousiastic, overly optimistic! The value of Linux and FOSS is to go in opposite direction of marketing hype.
So please at the cost of moderating your infective enthousiasm, please be cautious.
--
The second point I would like to make, is there are two aspects in KDE.

One is its use, as an application framework, mostly libraries, to developp nice, mostly portables "extended" QT applications.
For this purpose, even if it is a work in progress, KDE4.1 is obvioulsy quite good, and solid: applications (K3B, Dolphin, andmany more) are very good.

Secondly, KDE4.1 used as a Linux Distro basic window manager/GUI system, like in OpenSuse, Mandriva, KUBUNTU, Fedora, more...
This integration requires lots of work from the "Disto developpers" and this work is largely specific to the distro environment.
For this even my recent evaluations indicates that it take a while (probably shorter than for the US to stop being an "involuntary guest" in Mesopotamia), before there is good solid (where almost everything work "out of the distro box") KDE4 based Linux.
KDE4.1 final release is pretty much Aug 1st, 2008.
The integration work may take a few months, say three or four, if the wonderful software developpers works as fast as usual (remember: it took 1 1/2 year to deliver VISTA SP1... just a bugs fix!).
To me the reference standard, could be the best existing distros Gnome or KDE3 (alphabetically: Fedora, Mandriva, Ubuntu, OpenSuse).
To me a mark of success will be a fresh install, which matches or top, the functionality of theses "Best Distros"....

* Easy mostly automated (and optionally manual) install.

* Most hardware is detected, and appropriate drivesr are being installed : Audio (Pulse-audio KDE mgmt), Ethernet, Video/acceleration, Wi-FI, USB, Bluetooth, Webcam. etc...

I know it will be very good... and I know it will take a lot of work!
OpenSuse may be the first one to get there...

The next 'step' will be to have a "small footprint" version of KDE4 for Flash based devices, like the very successful ASUS EEE line.
Mandriva, may be the first company to get there?

But UBUNTU probably the most usable LINUX distro "out of the box" may end-up again being the best KDE4 distro, for the person who just want to "simply use Linux".

We probably will be very impressed... again.

AhJay






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Ahjay

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.191.161.104] on August 08, 2008 11:03 AM
Hi ;o)

Agree that KDE 4.1 still needs work and should be used primarily by early adapters and people with basic needs. But your "out of the box" desire relies basicly upon kernel, drivers and basic system development. Sure, some GUI tools needs to be provided for the desktops.

Discussing Ubuntu - in this case Kubuntu - it is hardy the best experience one could get with KDE 3.5.9.

8.04 is probably the most buggy Ubuntu ever. They seem to have started a quality assurance programme that hopefully will improve the coming versions, but in general Ubuntu tends to more or less abandon bugfixing on the existing version in favour of the next. It's not that easy with a LTS but they did this when 7.04 arrived and when 7.10 arrived - and bugs are piling in 8.04. When Ubuntu define bugs as critical or of high importance they better fix them. It really doesn't matter to me personally (have moved on to less faulty distros), but as many new users confuses Ubuntu with Linux it's a potentially huge problem for GNU/Linux.

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 67.88.6.146] on August 08, 2008 06:32 PM
Seriously???? "Ubuntu the most usable linux distro out of the box" having the best kde implementation?
Hard to finish this comment with all the laughing I'm doing. I completely agree with the above poster about Hardy being one of the buggiest release yet.. The last time Ubuntu was stable enough to run a desktop on was Feisty..... AND also everyone knows that Ubuntu does KDE WRONG... As has been mentioned many times, kde is like the step child of Canonical...Not that there implementation of Gnome is that great but there KDE3 implementation is just out right awful, buggiest I have ever seen... I would suggest one of the worst actually..
and Ubuntu is not the most usable distro "out of the box" or at any other time....Even the mint users can tell you that... There distro is much more usable "out of the box"

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 67.88.6.146] on August 08, 2008 06:37 PM
Nice review, but I have heard a lot of complaints about Knetworkmanager not being available,. Last time i used Knetworkmanager, it was buggy and unreliable.. I don't think i would use it if it was available... Not sure why people are so in need of it, but if your looking for an alternative, I would suggest Wicd... Great gui app for wired and wireless connections. Works like a charm on my kde4..

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KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.53.111.116] on August 22, 2008 02:22 PM
Better late than never for a post I guess.

KDE 4.1 runs fine here. How can this be a copy, there is only so much one can do with a desktop. Would you rather have a white panel, like Gnome has. Great potential for this desktop and I will hang on to it. I defected from Gnome to KDE 4 with a brief, but respectful encounter with XFce.

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